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    Why does almost every set of MMP1K N54 turbos go up for sale shortly after delivery?

    I don't see this with any other twin option on the market. It's mostly MMP.

    Guy gets his MMP1K turbos, says OMG amazing I love them blahblahblah and then a for sale ad pops up a few weeks later:

    Looking to sell my fully optioned out mmp 1k twin turbos set up. They have about 10000kms on them and still are under warranty. No rattles or issues, currently make 570whp on 25psi on a conservative tune. Price includes VRSF catless downpipes, MMP relocated inlets, and outlets. Asking $3400 us shipped from Canada for everything.


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    I've heard the lag is atrocious. Worse than a single.

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    Because they were designed by a knucklehead who somehow acquired a mechanical engineering degree.

    Called it when we first saw them:
    1) The manifold primaries are very large, abundantly larger than the head ports, which is a big no-no with turbo cars.
    2) The collector is also way too large.
    3) The turbine housing has a matching collector and overlooked the most important re-design portion by incorporating a smallish OE-like frame size and volute. Alongside these things more than likely has very poor machining that leads to quicker failures, similar to some other "big" cast turbos out there.
    4) Due to the above they will spool like garbage, make no real advancements in power, and fail quickly. The ole triple whammy.

    There is only ONE full cast N54 offering that has every single one of the boxes in design checked.

    Rob
    Last edited by Rob@RBTurbo; 03-13-2020 at 12:00 PM.

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    You either see that or "just serviced" from MMP, only 3000 miles on the setup. A local had them and they were nothing but issues from day one. Laggy, outlets had poor fitment, wastegate disc literally fell off etc. They worst part is all that trouble and they didn't even seem make great power. He was on full e85, lot of boost and got walked by a 135 with RB2s DI only ethanol mix, on much lower boost. Reliability aside, I think the Gen 1s were a much better performing setup.

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    On another note the last known remaining MMP forum lover boys "Panzerfaust", of whom of course will state his MMP 1K's "are still performing great, spool awesome, have 30+psi on them daily at 40k miles, and will easily make 900-1,000hp as they are advertised" (when asked online); has recently made mention he is now going to a custom twin setup over on another forum.

    It definitely would be interesting to hear of a single solid result from these, backed by someone who actually would state some facts, but until then it is clear the proof was in the pudding from the quick trained eye visual of the design of these units on Day 1. FWIW he did provide some drawings on them at some point, which backed up the visuals, that they are simply a horrendous design all around.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by blaster3500 Click here to enlarge
    Reliability aside, I think the Gen 1s were a much better performing setup.
    Perfectly stated and that is because they used the OE manifolds which have a better primary runner design (which would help spool tremendously), but are restrictive at the collector for bigger power. However the OE frame size and volutes are nearly identical to these new cast housings, which only have a benefit of a very large collector to match the manifold.

    A bit of history is that the late 2015-2018 produced MMP Stage 3's were a watered down copy of our own original late 2014-2016 Super RB EVO 19T's (which we pulled for new sales in early 2016), and fought the quality issues thereafter until corrected with a significant turbine wheel change Jan 2017 through service work. While we were pulling new sales on this breed of turbo MMP Stage 3 took over its reigns, sold truckloads, and paid the price with a lot of failures. Then once they realized the problems of the originals, they invested in this new cast design and then got it all wrong once again, as you stated more than likely even worse. Another vendor with a similar product offering also had (and still has) the same issues for all of the same reasons. Anyway this is a very bad place to be, sometimes you have to know when to pull the plug on a product, as no one wins if there is a problem.

    Rob
    Last edited by Rob@RBTurbo; 03-13-2020 at 01:04 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    On another note the last known remaining MMP forum lover boys "Panzerfaust", of whom of course will state his MMP 1K's "are still performing great, spool awesome, have 30+psi on them daily at 40k miles, and will easily make 900-1,000hp as they are advertised" (when asked online); has recently made mention he is now going to a custom twin setup over on another forum.
    Fanboys always muddy the waters with their cheerleading.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Fanboys always muddy the waters with their cheerleading.
    Cheerleading is great as long as it is fact, the problem is that in cases like this they are simply just full of garbage. They are those who want to believe that they made the best choice so will enhance the truth 100x to get emotional support from others, eventually with time you just have to be able to read between the lines as these types will seldom admit they were wrong.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    On another note the last known remaining MMP forum lover boys "Panzerfaust", of whom of course will state his MMP 1K's "are still performing great, spool awesome, have 30+psi on them daily at 40k miles, and will easily make 900-1,000hp as they are advertised" (when asked online); has recently made mention he is now going to a custom twin setup over on another forum.

    It
    Hey Rob. I for some reason had thought that you had stopped being salty at me for not being biased for or against any vendors, but apparently in your banning from SS you've gone back on that and decided to complain about me again. Shame too, cause I actually was going to speak to you about potentially using your manifolds for my custom twin setup, but your attitude will keep that from happening.

    Fwiw, I don't and never have said I daily my car(it's a nice weather, non-winter car), nor that it runs at 30+ psi (29psi peak actually Click here to enlarge) and I have yet to Dyno the car so Ive never made any WHP claims. I did however post logs of my setup and showed them spooling plenty quicker than you claimed, in the thread you're referencing where Mauricio posted his blue prints. You conveniently ignored the log iirc. As for miles and time on the car, they certainly haven't been on there for 40k miles but over the last year+ yes they have worked excellently and still are without issue, over several thousands of miles. My decision to go with a custom large twin setup is simply out of looking for the best possible dragstrip performance - and externally wastegated GT30 turbos are undeniably going to work better than any IWG options for this platform. But thanks for making yourself look like an idiot and showing me I shouldn't do business with you.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    Cheerleading is great as long as it is fact, the problem is that in cases like this they are simply just full of garbage. They are those who want to believe that they made the best choice so will enhance the truth 100x to get emotional support from others, eventually with time you just have to be able to read between the lines as these types will seldom admit they were wrong.
    I'm not sure how I've been a "cheerleader" for MMP, I simply stated my experience and backed it with logs for the one product of theirs I used. I'm sorry if it upsets you when someone uses a competitors product. If it makes you feel any better, I'll remind you that I made sure to not use the MMP outlets and spent extra time and money on PSP outlets, as well as even recommended ways to use your PCV setup to many people over the solution that MMP offers up for people going with their turbos. Why? Because I'm a fan of products, not vendors specifically, as I've tried to make you understand many times. It's such a shame that you still have to stoop to $#@! talking competitors and the users of their products in order to drive sales even in the face of releasing your "Game Finishers" instead of your products being able to speak for themselves.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Panzerfaust Click here to enlarge
    Hey Rob. I for some reason had thought that you had stopped being salty at me for not being biased for or against any vendors, but apparently in your banning from SS you've gone back on that and decided to complain about me again. Shame too, cause I actually was going to speak to you about potentially using your manifolds for my custom twin setup, but your attitude will keep that from happening.

    Fwiw, I don't and never have said I daily my car(it's a nice weather, non-winter car), nor that it runs at 30+ psi (29psi peak actually Click here to enlarge) and I have yet to Dyno the car so Ive never made any WHP claims. I did however post logs of my setup and showed them spooling plenty quicker than you claimed, in the thread you're referencing where Mauricio posted his blue prints. You conveniently ignored the log iirc. As for miles and time on the car, they certainly haven't been on there for 40k miles but over the last year+ yes they have worked excellently and still are without issue, over several thousands of miles. My decision to go with a custom large twin setup is simply out of looking for the best possible dragstrip performance - and externally wastegated GT30 turbos are undeniably going to work better than any IWG options for this platform. But thanks for making yourself look like an idiot and showing me I shouldn't do business with you.

    I'm not sure how I've been a "cheerleader" for MMP, I simply stated my experience and backed it with logs for the one product of theirs I used. I'm sorry if it upsets you when someone uses a competitors product. If it makes you feel any better, I'll remind you that I made sure to not use the MMP outlets and spent extra time and money on PSP outlets, as well as even recommended ways to use your PCV setup to many people over the solution that MMP offers up for people going with their turbos. Why? Because I'm a fan of products, not vendors specifically, as I've tried to make you understand many times. It's such a shame that you still have to stoop to $#@! talking competitors and the users of their products in order to drive sales even in the face of releasing your "Game Finishers" instead of your products being able to speak for themselves.
    Do you mind sharing some logs? I am genuinely curious.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Panzerfaust Click here to enlarge
    Hey Rob. I for some reason had thought that you had stopped being salty at me for not being biased for or against any vendors, but apparently in your banning from SS you've gone back on that and decided to complain about me again. Shame too, cause I actually was going to speak to you about potentially using your manifolds for my custom twin setup, but your attitude will keep that from happening.

    Fwiw, I don't and never have said I daily my car(it's a nice weather, non-winter car), nor that it runs at 30+ psi (29psi peak actually Click here to enlarge) and I have yet to Dyno the car so Ive never made any WHP claims. I did however post logs of my setup and showed them spooling plenty quicker than you claimed, in the thread you're referencing where Mauricio posted his blue prints. You conveniently ignored the log iirc. As for miles and time on the car, they certainly haven't been on there for 40k miles but over the last year+ yes they have worked excellently and still are without issue, over several thousands of miles. My decision to go with a custom large twin setup is simply out of looking for the best possible dragstrip performance - and externally wastegated GT30 turbos are undeniably going to work better than any IWG options for this platform. But thanks for making yourself look like an idiot and showing me I shouldn't do business with you.

    I'm not sure how I've been a "cheerleader" for MMP, I simply stated my experience and backed it with logs for the one product of theirs I used. I'm sorry if it upsets you when someone uses a competitors product. If it makes you feel any better, I'll remind you that I made sure to not use the MMP outlets and spent extra time and money on PSP outlets, as well as even recommended ways to use your PCV setup to many people over the solution that MMP offers up for people going with their turbos. Why? Because I'm a fan of products, not vendors specifically, as I've tried to make you understand many times. It's such a shame that you still have to stoop to $#@! talking competitors and the users of their products in order to drive sales even in the face of releasing your "Game Finishers" instead of your products being able to speak for themselves.
    Even if you were willing to pay for 10 sets of manifolds and receive 1, we still would not want you as a customer, so rest assured the sustained loss of your business means absolutely nothing here. You may as well use those sweet MMP “big flow big powa” mani’s you already have (and used to rave so much about) and toss the rest in the garbage. Click here to enlarge

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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by blaster3500 Click here to enlarge
    Do you mind sharing some logs? I am genuinely curious.
    Due to getting a new phone two days ago I don't have them to upload here and I don't think linking to the aforementioned thread would be appreciated, but I would be more than happy to get you some tomorrow!
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    Even if you were willing to pay for 10 sets of manifolds and receive 1, we still would not want you as a customer, so rest assured the sustained loss of your business means absolutely nothing here. May as well use those sweet MMP “big flow big powa” mani’s you already have and used to rave so much about, and toss the rest in the garbage. Click here to enlarge
    What, out of all that you still can't come up with an actual retort? Is even your fantastic advertising getting affected by the outbreak too? Let's not kid ourselves though, you probably haven't even had 10 manifolds made yet anyway due to the volume of your orders which is where all this whining about others comes from Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Panzerfaust Click here to enlarge
    Due to getting a new phone two days ago I don't have them to upload here and I don't think linking to the aforementioned thread would be appreciated, but I would be more than happy to get you some tomorrow!

    What, out of all that you still can't come up with an actual retort? Is even your fantastic advertising getting affected by the outbreak too? Let's not kid ourselves though, you probably haven't even had 10 manifolds made yet anyway due to the volume of your orders which is where all this whining about others comes from Click here to enlarge
    Who’s salty now?Click here to enlarge

    Indeed we only have about 10 sets of mani’s in stock total (to be sold and mated with GF’s), alongside more 13 sets that have been sold and delivered as complete GF’s to date. The point was we have no interest in your dealings regardless, so it matters not that you have changed your mind about reaching out.

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    0 out of 4 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    Who’s salty now?Click here to enlarge

    Indeed we only have about 10 sets of mani’s in stock total (to be sold and mated with GF’s), alongside more 13 sets that have been sold and delivered as complete GF’s to date. The point was we have no interest in your dealings regardless, so it matters not that you have changed your mind about reaching out.
    Not salty at all - I already have manifolds that fit and work just fine. Would it have been nice to try out a different option, sure. But it's certainly not necessary and I'm confident the performance will be more than adequate without. I realize "The point" of your post (when are you going to stop referring to yourself as "we"?) but I figured I would still respond to the only thing you were able to mention, unlike you're able to do when someone proves you wrong and calls you out. Of course I don't know what I expected from you, you haven't matured or learned anything since your first year in the platform unlike literally all of your competitors, except maybe Franken - but $#@!, even he still sells more sets than you because he's not a textbook definition of "dickhead", even if his approach to shoddy underperforming products is the same as yours.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Panzerfaust Click here to enlarge
    Not salty at all - I already have manifolds that fit and work just fine. Would it have been nice to try out a different option, sure. But it's certainly not necessary and I'm confident the performance will be more than adequate without. I realize "The point" of your post (when are you going to stop referring to yourself as "we"?) but I figured I would still respond to the only thing you were able to mention, unlike you're able to do when someone proves you wrong and calls you out. Of course I don't know what I expected from you, you haven't matured or learned anything since your first year in the platform unlike literally all of your competitors, except maybe Franken - but $#@!, even he still sells more sets than you because he's not a textbook definition of "dickhead", even if his approach to shoddy underperforming products is the same as yours.
    Not sure who you think you are fooling trying to act all sweet and innocent, but nice to see the ole passive aggressive Panzerfaust personality back again, and let me tell you WE are SOOOOO weeping over those hasty and salty words of yours.

    Well back on the OP's topic good luck selling those MMP1K's like all of the others jumping ship on them, as stated above we are sure they either have or are about to kick the bucket and that is the primary reason you are doing as such.

    Rob

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Panzerfaust Click here to enlarge
    Not salty at all - I already have manifolds that fit and work just fine. Would it have been nice to try out a different option, sure. But it's certainly not necessary and I'm confident the performance will be more than adequate without. I realize "The point" of your post (when are you going to stop referring to yourself as "we"?) but I figured I would still respond to the only thing you were able to mention, unlike you're able to do when someone proves you wrong and calls you out. Of course I don't know what I expected from you, you haven't matured or learned anything since your first year in the platform unlike literally all of your competitors, except maybe Franken - but $#@!, even he still sells more sets than you because he's not a textbook definition of "dickhead", even if his approach to shoddy underperforming products is the same as yours.
    Go ahead and speak your piece but don't be abusive toward vendors.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Go ahead and speak your piece but don't be abusive toward vendors.
    All good and no worries here... most anyone in the know realizes this guy was dropped on his head too many times as child. Or eating those paint chips may have done it? We could never figure out which honestly...
    Last edited by Rob@RBTurbo; 03-17-2020 at 07:04 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Go ahead and speak your piece but don't be abusive toward vendors.
    My genuine apologies for disrespecting your forum rules - however, I don't think vendor's should be allowed to namecall users either and the only reason he did so is because he didn't realize I was a user here as well, so I spoke up. However my conversations with him usually go nowhere as evidenced in this thread, so unless I get called more names or had lies put in my mouth I'm done even bothering interacting with him.

    As for the answer to your question in this thread - I am of the mind that people typically buy 1Ks or Stage 3s because they're looking for high performance from twins, and to date that has only been possible with GCs or the MMP offerings, however many don't realize it's going to take a good amount of additional fueling to come close to those 650-700-750whp levels that a single can produce without needing e50 and significant extra fueling. So of course if your goal is to simply have a fun streetcar at 600-650whp, a ST with less fueling will be an easier option than any twins. Buyers regret certainly, but from my experience I would rule out underperforming power potential or reliability issues. MMP was also the first (if not only?) twin company to allow you to transfer the rest of the warranty to a third party, however they do require that they inspect and do a bit of refurbishing on the turbos so that the third party buyer still gets a like-new product without any issues that may have arisen from the original owner. Imo that's a positive for all involved, though it could certainly be spun by competitors as "look at all the rebuilt turbos that people have to sell from them!"

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Panzerfaust Click here to enlarge
    however, I don't think vendor's should be allowed to namecall users either
    In an ideal world there wouldn't be a double standard but in an ideal world software, servers, and bandwidth wouldn't cost money.

    Regardless, kindly respect the rules.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Panzerfaust Click here to enlarge
    I don't think vendor's should be allowed to namecall users either and the only reason he did so is because he didn't realize I was a user here as well, so I spoke up. However my conversations with him usually go nowhere as evidenced in this thread, so unless I get called more names or had lies put in my mouth I'm done even bothering interacting with him.
    Read underlined sentence #1 . Then read underlined sentence #2 . See any irony?

    PS: WE figured you were a member and welcome your entrance and retort. The fact remains you are selling your MMP1K's that have done nothing for you, as you have realized they are garbage and need to go.

    PSS: You were the last of the 3 hard core MMP forum guys, yes I heard it all from a few of you for a couple years, the blah blah blah. So when they dropped by one, then two, and now your three; you have to realize this is what WE have to wait for and when the time gets here it is worth gloating about it. The lesson you need to learn, like those "know-it-alls" before you had to do, is that you shouldn't jump in to discussions and act like you have some knowledge on things you clearly don't.

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    Another day another classified ad for a low mileage set. How can you not be skeptical?

    Looking to sell my fully optioned out mmp 1k twin turbos set up. They have about 10000kms on them and still are under warranty. No rattles or issues, currently make 570whp on 25psi on a conservative tune. Asking $2250 us PayPal shipped from Canada FIRM.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Another day another classified ad for a low mileage set. How can you not be skeptical?

    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    Least they are intact still 6k miles later, so it seems. In this case the guy probably realized they are no 1k HP capable turbo setup and had he known the true potential he would've been just as well off with some basic Stage 2 turbos.

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    All of the guys that want to make big power seem to realise they really need a reliable ST and end up selling twins... Twins only seem the common right choice if you aim for 500-600hp

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jerain Click here to enlarge
    All of the guys that want to make big power seem to realise they really need a reliable ST and end up selling twins... Twins only seem the common right choice if you aim for 500-600hp
    Or, perhaps just with the MMP 1Ks they aren't even able to achieve what they SHOULD be making. If you're goal if 750whp+, I'd say sure, go single. I'd argue however, that it is less fun than twins at 600whp. Heck, @blaster3500 is knocking on the 700whp door, and probably would be over that with a more aggressive tune.

    I prefer the quicker spool/transient response/boost onset of twins over a single, and the MMP 1Ks have had terrible spool in every example I've seen.

    I have the original MMP S3s and while they have been working fine for me, I'd LOVE to have a set of the new RB GFs.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by langsbr Click here to enlarge
    Or, perhaps just with the MMP 1Ks they aren't even able to achieve what they SHOULD be making. If you're goal if 750whp+, I'd say sure, go single. I'd argue however, that it is less fun than twins at 600whp. Heck, @blaster3500 is knocking on the 700whp door, and probably would be over that with a more aggressive tune.

    I prefer the quicker spool/transient response/boost onset of twins over a single, and the MMP 1Ks have had terrible spool in every example I've seen.

    I have the original MMP S3s and while they have been working fine for me, I'd LOVE to have a set of the new RB GFs.
    Consider yourself lucky on those MMP S3's as basing off our own experience with the initial Super RB EVO's (with the HL wheel) I'd venture to guess our all gave up with the same failure mode by year ~3.5 and most of which were much much sooner in the 1 year range. Obviously the units that were pushed hard didn't make it quite as long and vice versa. Anyway so when MMP stepped in with their replicated MMP S3 setup we were just stepping out, it just wasn't worth it from any standpoint.

    I had ~30 sets of those housings all worked over already for HL wheels that I never ended up using, and ~20 housing sets that were swapped out for a better fitting wheel during subsequent servicing for reliability sake. Eventually I scrapped all the HL housings and sold off the manifolds to Hydra for his project for peanuts, in short it was an epic loss but a lot was learned that is for sure.

    As for the RB GF's, these units are the real deal. If you ever get to the point of moving on, feel free to shoot over an email.

    Rob

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