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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Who's running a build motor with open deck?

    So I'm currently in the process of rebuild a n54 engine after being dumb. I'm putting in forged rods and pistons. I was planning on just paying a local machine shop to bore and hone my block.

    I was planning on only shooting for 500 hp but now that I'm looking at all the money I'm spending I think I can shoot for more. How necessary is a sleeved motor around 600-700hp. I'm looking at a sleeve motor and it's about an extra 1500 bucks which is about a 1/3 more of my budget. I also can't find any definitive proof that they are needed or any proof of failure. It definitely feels like everyone's just putting them in for peace of mind.
    08' BMW 335xi, 153k Miles

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    You have to think more in terms of hours/miles than power. Sleeving a 150k miles motor vs. 10k miles motor is entirely different and even then it depends on use during those miles.

    153k miles you say on your car and wanting 700+ hp? Sleeve it

  3. #3
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    Well the core block I'm building is 80k. But I'm definitely leaning to getting it sleeved.
    08' BMW 335xi, 153k Miles

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    I know a guy in the uk running rb evos at 780hp without issues, open deck.
    Early blocks are solid between cylinders, the later ones have some gap between, whether that makes any difference or not.
    335I 518whp, Chinesium FCBO. AliExpress 16t turbos. JE forged pistons, FCP engineering forged rods, king sv bearings, Vargas spline lock crank hub built block.

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    Open deck and high cylinder pressures will cause ovaling of the cylinders themselves resulting in excess blowby and eventually loss of compression. Theoretically, could cause cracking as well. Sleeve it or convert to (semi)closed deck if venturing past 650tq.

  6. #6
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    I had a shop who does closed decking say that the closed decking was not a cause of false knock. He was mentioning that it would be the forged piston causing it. He also told me that I shouldn't bother with sleeving the engine as there is plenty of ways a shop can screw the sleeveing up.

    I just going to go closed decked and hope false knock isn't a big issue.
    08' BMW 335xi, 153k Miles

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    @kylewinterd - VTT runs aftermarket knock sensors on their Rebello motors. Might be worth investigating if you'd going full tilt with such a build.

  8. #8
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    Yep, shoot me a PM or email and I'd be happy to help.

    Chris
    Chris - VTT Forum Representative
    Chris@Vargasturbo.com
    www.Vargasturbo.com
    Click here to enlarge

  9. #9
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by kylerwinterd Click here to enlarge
    So I'm currently in the process of rebuild a n54 engine after being dumb. I'm putting in forged rods and pistons. I was planning on just paying a local machine shop to bore and hone my block.

    I was planning on only shooting for 500 hp but now that I'm looking at all the money I'm spending I think I can shoot for more. How necessary is a sleeved motor around 600-700hp. I'm looking at a sleeve motor and it's about an extra 1500 bucks which is about a 1/3 more of my budget. I also can't find any definitive proof that they are needed or any proof of failure. It definitely feels like everyone's just putting them in for peace of mind.
    Hey man, if you are spending the money I would have the closed deck insert put in. But then again I am a big fan of doing it once and doing it right. I can't imagine spending the money twice on an engine build.

    @jyamona is working to document & define the knock sensor tables and add new tables etc. There will soon be a knock sensor 'software fix'. No more putting pots on to desensitize the stock knock sensors. No need to buy expensive overpriced modified knock sensors from VTT or as @jyamona put it so eloquently to @Chris@VargasTurboTech "Sorry I $#@! on your 'upgraded knock sensor' cash grab". LOL.

    This was a community donation/founded process which makes it even cooler. People got together, donated their hard earned money on something that would benefit the entire community, and we will ALL soon have a real solution. I believe it is under beta right now so depending on your build timeline it may be out in time for you or you could be part of the beta process, I would contact @jyamona if I were you. It also is the 'real' fix so the DME uses it's logic to determine knock just like from the factory. This is a much better solution then having to fool the DME.

    @Terry@BMS donated the money required to get the project funded to the required dollar amount which was really cool to see. A true enthusiast and supporter of the N54 community. @Terry@BMS & @jyamona FTW!!!

    Attached is a picture @jyamona posted of some of the tables he is working with: Attachment 59200

  10. #10
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    lol, yeah we have some fun interactions with Jake from time to time. Click here to enlarge

    That said, we're all for software changes that allow for more flexibility. The more the better and good on the community for supporting continued dev!

    We developed this solution a few years back and kept them close for a competitive advantage, course time marches on and we don't need the competitive advantage, so we offered them up -not really intended to be a big seller (they're expensive!), just available if anyone needs something right now. They're on quite a few built motors including Terry's 135.

    Hopefully software changes are incorporated sooner rather than later, but until then if anyone needs a solution... PM me or shoot me an email and I'll be happy to help.

    Chris
    Chris - VTT Forum Representative
    Chris@Vargasturbo.com
    www.Vargasturbo.com
    Click here to enlarge

  11. #11
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    I'm still on the fence about if i should get closed decked or not but that's great that he is spending his own time to find those tables. Do you have a link to the thread about this?
    08' BMW 335xi, 153k Miles

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