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    The direct injection is overrated or port injection rules thread

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Deen@streetkingimports Click here to enlarge
    Injectors are still installed but the hpfp line is not plugged, it's straight through port injection that's being controlled by the standalone.
    Anyone remember when direct injection was touted as a major performance benefit and not a liability?

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    It sorta still is, just not on this platform, other vendors make upgraded hpfp for different cars.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Deen@streetkingimports Click here to enlarge
    It sorta still is, just not on this platform, other vendors make upgraded hpfp for different cars.
    I disagree. As does McLaren.

    It was added as a fuel efficiency technology due to them being able to run leaner on pump fuels. The world's fastest cars are not direct injected.

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    I did some testing with our Adaptronic. DI/PI, then PI only on the shop car. Back to back runs no changes to the tune except to tune the DI off up top, and run all fueling PI only. Car promptly lost 150WHP PI only. But yeah Joe DI is a liability... Only for those who do not know how to get it working in harmony...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The world's fastest cars are not direct injected.
    Yes they are

    In case you need help. I highlighted the two vehicles running DI, but hey Nurburgring laps dont matter right?

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The world's fastest cars are not direct injected.
    Psssst... The fastest car in the world in the 1/2 mile IS direct injected... But hey 1/2 mile traps don't matter, right?

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...rd-at-256-mph/

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    People used to say carbs were better performance parts than EFI. Look where we are now.

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    Well that escalated quickly LOL. So McLaren doesn't believe DI is a performance enhancer, but does BMW believe that? Are companies that are moving over to DI only worried about gas consumption improvement only? This car dynod at 700 port injection only on a dynocom, which usually reads high from what I know and I think this was at 30 PSI

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Deen@streetkingimports Click here to enlarge
    Well that escalated quickly LOL. So McLaren doesn't believe DI is a performance enhancer, but does BMW believe that? Are companies that are moving over to DI only worried about gas consumption improvement only? This car dynod at 700 port injection only on a dynocom, which usually reads high from what I know and I think this was at 30 PSI
    They read ridiculously high. 15-20% on average (basically they show Crank HP). So that 700WHP, when subtracted back into reality, is now 560-595WHP which at is what my car makes at 14-16 psi on a dynojet. In other words, power that can get made on $1999 Stage 2 turbos on 27-28PSI. Wholely unimpressive to say the least... As I said we lost a ton of power testing PI only. Keep in mind that power was on E100 fuel and 28PSI. Not a good showing
    Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 01-08-2019 at 02:09 PM.

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    What kept you from trying higher boost on PI only?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135iTX Click here to enlarge
    What kept you from trying higher boost on PI only?
    Huh? Not following? We tested it our 850+WHp level, power dropped down under 700WHP with PI only. I was simply stating our car makes 600WHP on 14-16 psi

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tony@VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    They read ridiculously high. 15-20% on average (basically they show Crank HP). So that 700WHP, when subtracted back into reality, is now 560-595WHP which at is what my car makes at 14-16 psi on a dynojet. In other words, power that can get made on $1999 Stage 2 turbos on 27-28PSI. Wholely unimpressive to say the least... As I said we lost a ton of power testing PI only. Keep in mind that power was on E100 fuel and 28PSI. Not a good showing
    We're suppose to run when his car is finished and once I get my differential back from mfactory, I guess we'll see a real world difference between direct injection with port injection vs port injection only, although he has a huge weight advantage if you look up Lewis fabrication you'll see that car is GUTTED for this build to fit those huge tires. When the time comes I'll post the race as I'm intrigued by the the outcome. I'll be using a bms Ots ST tune.

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    Any ideas why it made less power? Was the setup more prone to missfires/knock for a given boost level and timing? I know you stated that the car lost 150hp, what hurtles did you run into when trying to tune that power back?

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    I ran into no hurdles, PI is plain and simply less efficient. Once I saw the power loss, I turned DI back on up top and called it a day. I am sure I could have cranked up the boost, and got the power back, but why? As it is our car makes more power on less boost than any other build we have seen. There is a reason for it. All those guys are running like 70-80% PI up top for fueling. We run like 20-30% at most.

    The day they had this car on the dyno it was having issues, so PI only is not some magic fix for N54 problems.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tony@VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Yes they are

    In case you need help. I highlighted the two vehicles running DI, but hey Nurburgring laps dont matter right?

    Click here to enlarge
    Sure they matter. Just not in fastest claims:


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tony@VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Psssst... The fastest car in the world in the 1/2 mile IS direct injected... But hey 1/2 mile traps don't matter, right?

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...rd-at-256-mph/
    The fastest car in the mile isn't: https://www.boostaddict.com/content....-turbo-Ford-GT

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Deen@streetkingimports Click here to enlarge
    Well that escalated quickly LOL. So McLaren doesn't believe DI is a performance enhancer, but does BMW believe that? Are companies that are moving over to DI only worried about gas consumption improvement only? This car dynod at 700 port injection only on a dynocom, which usually reads high from what I know and I think this was at 30 PSI
    Tony knows something McLaren doesn't.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tony@VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    I ran into no hurdles, PI is plain and simply less efficient.
    Really? It's much more efficient at higher RPM where direct injection fuel pressure rises geometrically to match it.

    How many high power direct injected vehicles eventually resort to port injection? How many would you say happens with the reverse? Zero?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Well no offense but you have an investment in DI with your shotgun kits, so I could see why you push DI. But the way you tested the PI only doesn't sound like you tapped any of the potential, you just turned it off and dismissed the results vs trying to tune that t for success.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135iTX Click here to enlarge
    Well no offense but you have an investment in DI with your shotgun kits, so I could see why you push DI. But the way you tested the PI only doesn't sound like you tapped any of the potential, you just turned it off and dismissed the results vs trying to tune that t for success.
    if you say so. I tested it back to back. It lost a $#@! load of power, so yeah I don’t need to see anymore. You want to run PI only, and take 45psi to make what we make on 28 psi, by all means, go for it. No one is stopping you. My testing has nothing to do with the shotgun. The shotgun is for people looking to make reasonable power DI only. It's not for all-out builds. I run a single barrel on my car and sequential PI on top. It's much more efficient than PI only.
    Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 01-09-2019 at 02:57 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Sure they matter. Just not in fastest claims:

    Click here to enlarge

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    Really haven't seen any negative rebello posts, even burger motorsports is running one of their engines now

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Anyone remember when direct injection was touted as a major performance benefit and not a liability?
    It still is, look at diesels and the Gen V LS engines.

    The fact that you can knock on 500whp with a Factory HPFP and injectors alone is impressive when you compare it to most other platforms. The issue is I don't think the aftermarket for BMW pursued building upgraded pumps like most of DI performance aftermarket(s) did (IE: Diesels).

    Its funny I saw this post today, just yesterday I was talking to shop owner about how this, and we're thinking about dissecting my spare HPFP and seeing if there is a way to increase flow.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 1slow3.0h Click here to enlarge
    It still is, look at diesels and the Gen V LS engines.
    I think you mean Gen V LT but that is actually a great example. The top performance motor LT5 goes to port injection to help...

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    pretty sure the factory setups that also incorporate port injection are doing it to keep the valves clean, though it can't hurt to have another set of injectors when really turning it up

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