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  1. #1
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    Overheating but water pump works

    Background: Mods in sig. Water pump and thermostat replaced about 35k mi ago/ 3 years ago.

    Yesterday I was driving, engine was warm, normal cruising with no beating on it. The outside temp was around 95*F.

    The yellow overheat symbol came on the DIC, followed by the red one. Then it went away. All within a few
    seconds. Car flashed the 'overheat, drive carefully' message. It kept doing this - flasing red/yellow and going away - and the car was like it was in limp mode. I plugged the JB4 app in while driving, and the water temp readin was strange - it was jumping around quickly from zero or single digits to more accurate
    readings, i.e. 137-143-0-7-145-0-7-8-7-0-145, etc. Like it was having trouble getting an accurate water temp.
    Also at the same time, I got the trans gear symbol error in DIC, but didn't catch what the message was before it disappeared.

    I was only a few mins from home, so made it the rest of the way. When I parked, the coolant reservoir was steaming and leaking from the cap. So it wasn't just the sensor or reading, it was actually overheating.

    I had two codes:
    2E83 - electrical cooling pump, low power mode
    2FBE - fuel pressure after stop (not so concerned on this one, based in research, but I
    normally do not see this code)

    I had lost about a gallon of coolant, although very little was under the car when I parked. Guess it steamed out on the drive. I refilled the coolant (50/50 mix) and performed the purge procedure. The water pump ran and was definitely working during the purge process. This completed.

    I took it for another drive for about 5 min, this time with JB4 maxcool setting enabled. Car had cooled some, so water temps started about 180. I drove normally, and the water temp quickly got to about 230-240. At this point I received the same yellow and red overheat errors on the DIC, The JB4 water temp reading was not jumping around between 0 and 145 anymore, although it was jumping between 237-245 pretty quickly. It seemed like giving it a stab of gas pedal would cause the temp to spike/jump instantly and then go back down a few degrees. (could have been imagination/coincidence, not sure)

    I parked it back at home, and again found the coolant reservoir steaming and leaking everywhere from the cap. I could hear the water gurgling in the p ipes or block.

    I found no leaks around the coolant lines, reservoir, etc. Coolant does not appear contaminated with oil or otherwise.

    I checked the fuse for the water pump (#9, 60 amp in glove box). It was not blown, but had some minor glazing on the pins and heat discoloration so I cleaned it with a wire brush.

    I'm not sure if this is a water pump/thermostat problem, or a sensor problem. I'm leaning toward the pump itself, but it doesn't have many miles on it (I know these things go out prematurely though) and it gets power and worked during purge process, so not sure.

    I also can't understand why the JB4 was showing such strange readings - dropping down to 0*, 7*, etc.
    then right back up to 145* - when it first overheated. Bad sensor maybe?

    I read that some had fixed non-working water pumps by replacing the power distribution box fuse on the battery - but my pump actually appears to still operate.

    Any ideas?
    2009 535i Sport
    Software: JB4 G5 | MHD | Trebila Tune | XHP Stage 3
    Hardware: GC Lites | Inlets | Outlet | 3" D-P's | 7" FMIC | S2 LPFP | TBI | DCI | ER CP | Forge DV's | 3.5 TMAP | RB PCV | Koni FSD

  2. #2
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I would buy a FCP pump and thermostat.
    Just replace the thermostat for now as it's more than likely the problem. I say buy both because IIRC you get a discount and you will need the pump eventually, now you have it on hand and lifetime warranty.

  3. #3
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    The fact that the sensor readings drop to zero is a dead give away that this is most likely an electrical problem. I would start by checking the wiring around the temp sensor
    https://workshop-manuals.com/bmw/1_s...sor_%28n54%29/

  4. #4
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    Definitely seems electrical, uninstall jb4 and see if it still does the issue.
    2010|335i|LMB|E92|6MT|MSport|Logic7|335is Clutch|AE Performance|BMS|Inline Walbro|VRSF 7"|Inlets|
    1992|Pontiac Firebird|Mild 355ci|T56|
    2001|Chevrolet Camaro| T56 LS1| Bolt-ons| -Sold
    -I will look on your treasures, gypsy. Is this understood?-

  5. #5
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by iminhell1 Click here to enlarge
    I would buy a FCP pump and thermostat.
    Just replace the thermostat for now as it's more than likely the problem. I say buy both because IIRC you get a discount and you will need the pump eventually, now you have it on hand and lifetime warranty.
    Definitely the plan, can't beat FCPEuro's warranty or price.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Aus335iGuy Click here to enlarge
    The fact that the sensor readings drop to zero is a dead give away that this is most likely an electrical problem. I would start by checking the wiring around the temp sensor
    https://workshop-manuals.com/bmw/1_s...sor_%28n54%29/
    Perfect, thanks!

    I also suspect it could a bad sensor ... but could that alone cause overheating?
    2009 535i Sport
    Software: JB4 G5 | MHD | Trebila Tune | XHP Stage 3
    Hardware: GC Lites | Inlets | Outlet | 3" D-P's | 7" FMIC | S2 LPFP | TBI | DCI | ER CP | Forge DV's | 3.5 TMAP | RB PCV | Koni FSD

  6. #6
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    also if no leaks and loosing water it could be head gasket.

    need to do a pressure test
    Bmw 1 series M 11.4@127mph

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    If it detects that the water temp is low it may not activate the pump. That could do it.

  8. #8
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    update:
    new coolant temp sensor
    new expansion tank (suspected a leak)

    Its still overheating just idling - steadily rises to 250 F then got yellow overheat warning and shut down immediately.
    still throwing 2E83.
    Have not seen strange readings after replacing temp sensor.

    Looks like Im not getting out of this without replacing the pump after all! Ordered from FCP Euro for their lifetime warranty (wish i had the first time). Will be here Thurs.

    Dont have real reason to suspect wiring/power to pump at this point?
    2009 535i Sport
    Software: JB4 G5 | MHD | Trebila Tune | XHP Stage 3
    Hardware: GC Lites | Inlets | Outlet | 3" D-P's | 7" FMIC | S2 LPFP | TBI | DCI | ER CP | Forge DV's | 3.5 TMAP | RB PCV | Koni FSD

  9. #9
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    Is your radiator fan working?

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    I had the same thing happen with only the water pump at 50%. The expansion tank released the pressure causing a mess in the engine bay. Once cleared it didn't come back but allowed me to get the pump / thermostat and rad changed. Rad had a small leak.

    Since doing those three no issues.

    The milleage age on the pump has you baffled but after all it is electric. These cars !!

    -B

  11. #11
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    Ran the INPA testing of the water pump modes (5%, 25%, 50%, 95%) and performed the Water Pump Bleed process while watching INPA reflect the nominal vs actual flow #'s realtime. Everything was good and green, and output was right inline with nominal.

    I did all this water pump testing back to back, so gave it a throrough workout and it did not start underperforming. This seems to imply the power / voltage supply is good.
    2009 535i Sport
    Software: JB4 G5 | MHD | Trebila Tune | XHP Stage 3
    Hardware: GC Lites | Inlets | Outlet | 3" D-P's | 7" FMIC | S2 LPFP | TBI | DCI | ER CP | Forge DV's | 3.5 TMAP | RB PCV | Koni FSD

  12. #12
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    If you’ve got a Jb4 I would look at the wiring on that

  13. #13
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    Does sound alot like a head gasket if the temp is swinging wildly and the coolant is being forced out.

    I had an old toyota. A stone cracked the radiator and coolant leaked out. I didnt realise until traveling down the highway and seeing the temp really high.

    I pulled over and like a fool (it was about 20 years ago) I took off the radiator cap and poured in some water. It went like mount st Helens. The water immediately turned to steam and all the filth in the radiator went with it. The fire brigade were called.
    I replaced the radiator but the damage was done. It kept blowing the water out and the temp needle would swing up and down as I presume gas bubbles passed over the sensor.

    You can check your coolant for exhaust gases. My car was never right after that and it wasnt worth skimming the block to fix it.
    Best:11.79@119mph on stock turbos.
    11.74@129 on GCs.
    FBO+Meth Port injection, GC Turbos, custom bucketless stage2, JB4, Trebila flash.

  14. #14
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    I have not seen evidence of oil and coolant mixing (coolant is not cloudy, oil is not milky).

    I have not seen the coolant temp fluctuations since I installed a new coolant temp sensor and refilled the coolant level.

    I have not noticed any leaks since replaced the expansion tank, even at 250* + temps.

    Radiator fan is working.

    the voltage to WP seems good based on INPA test results, and completion of the bleed process several times.

    JB4 - I could see that may cause the fluctuations in temp reading, but I can't see how that could contribute to the actual overheating. Illuminate me if I'm missing something.

    Taking it to a local indie shop Friday for diagnosis.
    2009 535i Sport
    Software: JB4 G5 | MHD | Trebila Tune | XHP Stage 3
    Hardware: GC Lites | Inlets | Outlet | 3" D-P's | 7" FMIC | S2 LPFP | TBI | DCI | ER CP | Forge DV's | 3.5 TMAP | RB PCV | Koni FSD

  15. #15
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LessIsMore Click here to enlarge
    I have not seen evidence of oil and coolant mixing (coolant is not cloudy, oil is not milky).

    I have not seen the coolant temp fluctuations since I installed a new coolant temp sensor and refilled the coolant level.

    I have not noticed any leaks since replaced the expansion tank, even at 250* + temps.

    Radiator fan is working.

    the voltage to WP seems good based on INPA test results, and completion of the bleed process several times.

    JB4 - I could see that may cause the fluctuations in temp reading, but I can't see how that could contribute to the actual overheating. Illuminate me if I'm missing something.

    Taking it to a local indie shop Friday for diagnosis.
    Just to clarify all of this... you haven't removed jb4 once yet? My JB4 board fried and would cause my car to turn off at lights randomly, or my personal favorite it killed the engine when i hit disconnect in the app lol
    Last edited by 7plagues; 06-13-2018 at 03:23 PM. Reason: spellling
    2010|335i|LMB|E92|6MT|MSport|Logic7|335is Clutch|AE Performance|BMS|Inline Walbro|VRSF 7"|Inlets|
    1992|Pontiac Firebird|Mild 355ci|T56|
    2001|Chevrolet Camaro| T56 LS1| Bolt-ons| -Sold
    -I will look on your treasures, gypsy. Is this understood?-

  16. #16
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LessIsMore Click here to enlarge
    I have not seen evidence of oil and coolant mixing (coolant is not cloudy, oil is not milky).

    I have not seen the coolant temp fluctuations since I installed a new coolant temp sensor and refilled the coolant level.

    I have not noticed any leaks since replaced the expansion tank, even at 250* + temps.

    Radiator fan is working.

    the voltage to WP seems good based on INPA test results, and completion of the bleed process several times.

    JB4 - I could see that may cause the fluctuations in temp reading, but I can't see how that could contribute to the actual overheating. Illuminate me if I'm missing something.

    Taking it to a local indie shop Friday for diagnosis.
    That's good but under pressure the exhaust gasses can force their way into the coolant. May not look oily. The kits detect dissolved gases. Can look totally normal. If it's not pressurising and forcing the coolant out then that's a good sign
    Best:11.79@119mph on stock turbos.
    11.74@129 on GCs.
    FBO+Meth Port injection, GC Turbos, custom bucketless stage2, JB4, Trebila flash.

  17. #17
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    As I said earlier if it’s reading 0 degrees the car thinks it’s cold and stops the pump and fans. It sounds like you have an intermittent wiring issue.

  18. #18
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    There is three types of head gasket failure and in varying degrees

    Oil to water
    Water to combustion chamber
    Oil to combustion chamber but very rare

    How much it leaks depends on how hot/cold the head is.

    I've seen a head gasket leak from the back of the head as the head bolt lost its tension and let the head lift at operating temp but not when cold.

    A simple pressure system test will eliminate the possibility if its not.

    But this would be where I would be starting.
    Bmw 1 series M 11.4@127mph

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    UPDATE/SOLVED:
    The issue was the thermostat failed CLOSED. No flow through radiator.
    Block pressure test performed just in case, and was good.

    Recap for the search results:
    Thermostat and water pump were both 3 yrs/~35K miles old (I think was the ECS Whaler thermostat/VDO water pump kit, not the genuine BMW kit.)Overheating started with no prior symptoms. When parked idling or driving at city speeds, the engine would overheat quickly. When driving at highway speeds, the engine would overheat much more slowly, but never actually stop rising. Only code I received was a '2E83 - electrical cooling
    pump, low power mode'. And that code did not show up every time it overheated either. I also saw odd coolant temp readings on the JB4 once it got over 250*F but I think that's just how the sensors are, both old and new did that).
    Replacing the coolant temp sensor and leaking expansion tank with new did not help. Thermostat failed close, replaced that and water pump, and good to go again.
    2009 535i Sport
    Software: JB4 G5 | MHD | Trebila Tune | XHP Stage 3
    Hardware: GC Lites | Inlets | Outlet | 3" D-P's | 7" FMIC | S2 LPFP | TBI | DCI | ER CP | Forge DV's | 3.5 TMAP | RB PCV | Koni FSD

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