Close

Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Houston, Tx
    Posts
    211
    Rep Points
    718.0
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8


    3 out of 4 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No

    Motiv Boostbox Question

    Hoping not to get beat up in this post...but here it goes...

    If I buy the boostbox from Motiv then my costs are:
    Boostbox - $200
    Motiv Propiatary tune - $300 with single turbo option selected
    MHD Flasher - $99
    MHD logger - $69
    MHD increased boost limit - $49...
    Grand Total - $717

    Or I can get a JB4 with a BEF for $479
    Or hell even a Procede for $700 brand new...

    Granted, I don't endorse the Procede by any means necessary, but just simply looking at it all. Only reason that I even ask this is due to someone contacting me that has a single turbo swap with a boostbox that they purchased when they bought their single turbo kit... I got on their computer and setup the BB App to flash the car. After finding out all of the details of his modifications it was apparent that he didn't want to spend any more money to get the car to work properly. After attempting to flash multiple times and no boost working I finally read on the Motiv website that it requires a 'lite' tune file to allow it to work properly... Without knowing what the changes are or the xdf referencing these changes I was unable to assist him. Therefore I asked him to remove the boostbox and sell it, rehook up his JB4 from prior to the Single Turbo swap, flash the custom JB4 firmware, flash the dme with a backend flash from the BB App and BAM!!! It worked amazingly! I understand this is a business and all, but at least have the decency to allow customers to have options in flashing. Double dipping from having people utilize one flashing platform over another and purchasing your products is sort of a poor attempt to monopolize the market. The main reason I'm attempting to assist the market is so that the community can purchase more upgrades for their vehicles without being "taxed" for each level of upgrade. The BB App works for flashing any of the MSD80/81/85 vehicles just as well as the MHD tool does.

    Is there any timeframe for when the new xdf's will be released?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    132,516
    Rep Points
    38,566.0
    Mentioned
    2369 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    386


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by trevorlee02 Click here to enlarge
    Therefore I asked him to remove the boostbox and sell it, rehook up his JB4 from prior to the Single Turbo swap, flash the custom JB4 firmware, flash the dme with a backend flash from the BB App and BAM!!! It worked amazingly!
    If I may interject here, what is the point of the boost box then? Why is it even necessary?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Houston, Tx
    Posts
    211
    Rep Points
    718.0
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8



    Yes Reputation No
    I'm really hoping that someone at Motiv may assist me out here... not too positive... @jyamona@motiv @CKI@Motiv

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    263
    Rep Points
    266.2
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    Yes Reputation No
    Boostbox lets the dme to control the Mac solenoid instead of relying on an external boost controller, when implemented correctly it is a more reliable solution especially if you have an automatic transmission, since the transmission will see the correct load at all time. The challenge is that the stock PID algorithm for stock frame twin turbos donít work well for external wastegates on the single turbo setup. Guys at Motiv have to rewrite most of the boost control tables, hence the extra cost for a lite tune.

    i am happy to buy that boostbox from your friend if thatís still available lol.
    09 BMW E92 335i:Top Mount EFR 7670 / Motiv / AP Racing / Wavetrac / TC Kline [Full Modlist]
    07 BMW R1200S: Shine Yellow / Akrapovic / Ohlins
    Click here to enlarge

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,948
    Rep Points
    11,348.1
    Mentioned
    702 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    114


    Yes Reputation No
    From the JB4 single turbo FAQ, since we get emailed similar questions often:

    What are the benefits of running a JB4 rather than flash only for single turbo use?

    While it's possible to tune a single turbo without a JB4 doing so comes with many disadvantages.

    1) The JB4 includes more robust safety systems than are possible via flash only. Starting with fundamental safety systems like dropping to WG spring pressure if boost exceeds a user defined value, if the air/fuel ratio in either bank turns dangerously lean, or if fuel pressure drops below a safe level. While you might think the DME alone can handle these basic safety systems surprisingly it's not the case. The DME will happily let you run along at full power and a 18:1 AFR, with boost pegged if a WG line drops off, and the only fuel pressure safety provided is when fuel pressure drops down so low fuel injection itself has to be suspended. In addition to these basic safety systems the JB4 offers layered advanced safety systems. For example it monitors fuel trims bank to bank and reverts to safety if they exceed more than a 15% variance indicating a possible fuel distribution or o2 sensor issue. Common with single turbos. Port injection and WMI add extra failure points and the JB4 control provides advanced advanced safety systems for them as well. The port injection FAQ covers the basics.. The JB4 is also configured to allow the factory throttle blade safety system to remain functional in the event of a serious overboost where a line pops off a WG or similar.

    2) The JB4 boost control system is programmed as absolute meaning you'll always target a specific boost level. Unlike the DME which naturally implements a LOAD control system where boost levels go down when it's cold and go up when its warm. The opposite of what you generally want for turbocharged performance. In addition the JB4 single turbo setup is quick and easily adaptable to a wide range of setups eliminating the need for expensive custom boost tuning and the risks that come with repeated logs on systems that are not yet setup. It's not uncommon for engine damage to occur while a new setup is initially being dialed in. In addition the pedal to boost mapping, spool aggression, boost by gear, and other critical factors can be easily adjusted in dash on the fly to suit the needs for the particular track or racing situation. Automatic compensation for o2 sensors under exhaust back pressure is also managed by the JB4. The JB4 automatically builds a base dutycycle curve for each map ensuring consistent performance across a wide range of racing conditions.

    3) On the fly changes. Whether it's changing the boost/power level, boost by gear setting (including being able to disable it on the fly for burn outs or if traction turns out to be better than expected), pedal input, 2STEP RPM, or what gauges are shown in dash, the JB4 allows a wide range of user adjustment real time from the drivers seat without having to use a 3rd party device or risk programming the DME between runs.

    4) The JB4 allows for much better real time feedback to the driver. User adjustable in dash gauges allow you to keep a constant eye on boost, timing, knock, meth flow, and/or AFR, all selectable and changeable on the fly from the drivers seat. A user adjustable shift light can be triggered making rowing through the gears easier. In addition you can select map0 on the fly to allow OBDII port logging and diagnostics when needed for vehicle service. The JB4 default logging set includes all relevant data required for tuning including boost, timing cylinders 1-6, AFR and fuel trims in both banks, high and low fuel pressure, load, calculated torque, trans temperature, and many other parameters. The JB4 provides a simple to use but incredibly robust data logging system eliminating the need to select what parameters to record before each run and providing instant on the fly charting without the need of 3rd party internet programs. We routinely add parameters to the JB4 logging set based on customer feedback and evolving tuning requirements.

    5) Integrated JB4 features such as no lift shift, 2step, anti-lag, port injection control, flex fuel sensor, and progressive water/meth (WMI) control eliminate the need for independent add on boxes that are more difficult to install and technically unable to communicate with each other. Integration allows these extra features to share information for a smooth and cohesive tuning solution. For example with the JB4 NLS and JB4 port injection control when you press the clutch in for NLS your port injection flow is momentarily suspended to avoid huge backfires that have been known to blow out o2 sensors and in extreme cases blow up intake manifolds. When the DME requests a torque drop due to traction or stability control the JB4, WMI, and PI systems all respond accordingly. JB4 anti-lag has a dedicated user adjustable boost limiter to avoid unnecessary engine stress while engaged. WMI integration is able to hold boost levels low UNTIL fluid is flowing adequately to prevent spool up and transitional knock, adjust your boost target if the fluid being injected turns out not to be as potent as was expected or required to prevent knock, and in the event of a fail-safe depending on the severity of the situation either lower your boost target partially OR instantly dump boost out the diverters/close the throttle/cut timing. These are just some of the many examples of why having add on boxes an features all integrated through a single system is advantageous.

    6) The JB4 is widely used and widely supported including free unlocked back end flash maps and custom mapping support from BMS via the n54tech support forum. BMS sponsors and attends several 1/4 mile and 1/2 mile races per year continuously improving the JB4 base maps and features based on real world experience and feedback. These updates are provided free of charge to JB4 customers via n54tech firmware posts.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,948
    Rep Points
    11,348.1
    Mentioned
    702 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    114


    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Also FWIW I still don't understand why they even need an add on box to do it flash only. The box is only changing the frequency from 250hz to 30hz on the solenoid output. They really can't figure out how to make that speed change in the DME? Someone who believes in conspiracy theories might raise an eyebrow here. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Houston, Tx
    Posts
    211
    Rep Points
    718.0
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8



    Yes Reputation No
    well, I guess I won't be receiving an answer from any of the Motiv folks... oh well...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,491
    Rep Points
    1,881.0
    Mentioned
    192 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by trevorlee02 Click here to enlarge
    Motiv Propiatary tune - $300 with single turbo option selected
    It is 100% NOT necessary to purchase a Motiv tune for it to work correctly. Countless other tuners have tuned their customers' cars running the boost box, and I believe all the big name tuners have been provided with the necessary few bytes. They are also available upon request from any verified customer.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by trevorlee02 Click here to enlarge
    Is there any timeframe for when the new xdf's will be released?
    See above.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    If I may interject here, what is the point of the boost box then? Why is it even necessary?
    Hook a 3-port mac up the the DME without a JB4, and see what happens. Have fun running "all the boost" or "none of the boost" with no control.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    The box is only changing the frequency from 250hz to 30hz on the solenoid output. They really can't figure out how to make that speed change in the DME?
    DME is 300hz. I can get it down a little under 100Hz easily. Past that, I would need to waste who knows how many hours digging into the tricore global timer array and prescalers code. Not the best use of my hours right now.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Someone who believes in conspiracy theories might raise an eyebrow here.
    Seriously? You struggled to figure out scaling pwm output frequency down to 30hz on the JB4, a platform where YOU designed the hardware and the high level source code. If I had that luxury it would be done in under 5 minutes on msd8x.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by trevorlee02 Click here to enlarge
    well, I guess I won't be receiving an answer from any of the Motiv folks... oh well...
    Dude, you waited 1hr 20min during friday happy hour time EST? Come on now.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Houston, Tx
    Posts
    211
    Rep Points
    718.0
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8



    Yes Reputation No
    Didn't realize it was happy hour on the east coast... sort of live in Houston... so, just wondering, when will the others of us be able to utilize the features of the boost box? I'm just seeing if it is really necessary to not let everyone in on the byte changes so that the people who purchase them can modify the tunes for themselves and flash with any tool that they so desire? Or will this be specifically for the MHD flashing utility?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Savannah GA
    Posts
    1,332
    Rep Points
    2,563.0
    Mentioned
    108 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    26


    3 out of 8 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No

    This post by CKI@Motiv is hidden due to excessive negative ratings. Click expand to view the post.


    Formerly 3000GT MR

    Have a single turbo and/or tired of burning up O2 sensors? Ask me about the new ADV retro kits!
    Please Email me at ChrisKinnovations@gmail.com in lieu of PM's for fastest response on any topics.

    Click here to enlarge
    335i
    E92 2010
    Mods: VM 6466 top mount, VRSF IC, twin disk, and lots more!
    335i VFF900 E90 2009 RIP

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,948
    Rep Points
    11,348.1
    Mentioned
    702 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    114


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jyamona@motiv Click here to enlarge
    Seriously? You struggled to figure out scaling pwm output frequency down to 30hz on the JB4, a platform where YOU designed the hardware and the high level source code. If I had that luxury it would be done in under 5 minutes on msd8x.
    It took a few hrs of programming due to how the timers and prescalars are multiplexed but given what the DME is capable of seems like it should be very straight forward. If you can get it down to 100hz it's not that far off.

    I had an idea for a simple converter that could retail for say $99, and we'd make good money on it, but not sure it's worth the effort. Better product might be a new solenoid that can run at higher speed? Seems to be some design and supply issues with your approach and if there is a market there designing little electronic devices and control solutions is one of my favorite pastimes. Click here to enlarge

    Anyway I'll keep the gears turning on this end. Had a flash only customer come up to me at No Fly Zone and lament his JB4 removal and how easy it was to change maps and tuning at the track when he needs. I think more and more single turbo guys will start to see what they are missing not running a JB4 when the dust settles and they are outside earshot of their pro boost box tuners. Not only is it cheaper and easier but does so much more for them. Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 11-18-2017 at 01:31 PM.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,673
    Rep Points
    1,375.9
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by CKI@Motiv Click here to enlarge
    Haha thats funny, go ahead and call us out out of every other tuner. First off your prices are all wrong, second, if your going to be Joe's little playboi because you helped develop the new BB flasher, we mine as well remove our subscription(s) all together, it doesnt bother us one bit.
    Damn dude what are you insulting me for? I've never done anything to you but help you out and do my best to help customers get answers.

    What's with this playboi garbage?

    If only you responded to customer emails this fast...

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Houston, Tx
    Posts
    211
    Rep Points
    718.0
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8



    Yes Reputation No
    @CKI@Motiv - I wasn't attempting to insult you or Motiv. I believe Motiv makes some great products, just none of them that I feel the need to use. My prices are off of your website man, that's why I was asking about it... not wanting to have a size contest here... but, I literally got the information from your website...
    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

    I've seen a couple of the "lite" tune files and I would say that they honestly need a JB4 on them for safety and control...Im over on *********** as well, I just dont see you guys getting as butt hurt over there...

    As far as Joe's playboi is concerned... where in the hell did that come from??? Lol. There were requests for volunteers to further assist in developing the app, I raised my hand to help... not for Joe, he isn't paying me, but for the BMW community as a whole! But your missing what the BB App is... it's a flasher and logger just like the MHD application... BUT!!! Its also a full tuning and diagnostics application as well, for both the engine and transmission... I'm not trying to compete with Martial, he has a great product, I just want something different. I've been using the MHD app for over a year now and I like it for a flashing utility. However, I believe that programming your injectors, battery change, Alpina transmission flash, SZL alignment... and the list goes on.. but I also want to tune my engine and transmission within the same application, but not just my BMW 335i, my other vehicles as well...
    Last edited by trevorlee02; 11-17-2017 at 11:54 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    263
    Rep Points
    266.2
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    Yes Reputation No
    Care less about this stupid drama, when is the boostbox is gonna be in stock? It has been weeks...
    09 BMW E92 335i:Top Mount EFR 7670 / Motiv / AP Racing / Wavetrac / TC Kline [Full Modlist]
    07 BMW R1200S: Shine Yellow / Akrapovic / Ohlins
    Click here to enlarge

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,948
    Rep Points
    11,348.1
    Mentioned
    702 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    114


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky2 Click here to enlarge
    Damn dude what are you insulting me for? I've never done anything to you but help you out and do my best to help customers get answers.

    What's with this playboi garbage?

    If only you responded to customer emails this fast...
    These guys are super salty lately. Not sure why.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    33
    Rep Points
    37.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Sorry for the bump but, does the boost box still have the dme go into limp mode if there is a problem? Are the dme safety features still able to be used?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,491
    Rep Points
    1,881.0
    Mentioned
    192 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GreyNBlueE92 Click here to enlarge
    Sorry for the bump but, does the boost box still have the dme go into limp mode if there is a problem? Are the dme safety features still able to be used?
    Yes Click here to enlarge

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    132,516
    Rep Points
    38,566.0
    Mentioned
    2369 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    386


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GreyNBlueE92 Click here to enlarge
    Sorry for the bump but, does the boost box still have the dme go into limp mode if there is a problem? Are the dme safety features still able to be used?
    Good to see the DME safety is retained.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    33
    Rep Points
    37.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Any benefit for us MT guys? With the boost box does the dme control load the same way as stock? Or in a more performance oriented way?

    "Unlike the DME which naturally implements a LOAD control system where boost levels go down when it's cold and go up when its warm."

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    132,516
    Rep Points
    38,566.0
    Mentioned
    2369 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    386


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GreyNBlueE92 Click here to enlarge
    Any benefit for us MT guys? With the boost box does the dme control load the same way as stock? Or in a more performance oriented way?
    I don't know. This hasn't really been clarified but the emphasis is on the automatic.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •