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    • The MKV Supra might be awesome - Sub 3000 lbs curb weight, custom BMW I6 turbo powerplant

      So far news about the fifth generation Toyota Supra has underwhelmed. It was coming off as if it would just be a reskinned BMW Z4/Z5 but it seems to be turning into something substantial. We could get a lightweight driver's car that puts BMW's own offerings to shame.


      This is all based on leaked information but let's hope it is true:

      Just got an update on the car from Toyota USA source:

      Sub 3000lb curb weight confirmed for production car, carbon roof is standard, and worldwide release is in April 2019.

      Covered these forever ago, but nice to see the information is still accurate (though not shocking this late in development). Also, looks like production may indeed begin in the November/December 2018 window as originally reported.
      Sub 3000 pounds? That would significantly undercut the MKIV generation Supra.

      Now what about the motor?

      turns out car does not have a B58 or S58 and is instead a totally new design, but I cannot give details aside from it being an I6 sourced from BMW.

      I thought it was gonna end up being new architecture, but I thought it would be derived from an existing design; apparently it is not.
      No B58 or S58 is interesting. Especially considering that means BMW would be creating a custom motor from Toyota. Odds are this will be a B58 or S58 architecture but customized in some way to set it apart.

      How much money?

      couldn't get that out of them, but apparently there will only be a single model on launch, so I think it may be $55k only for now. entry level model is more or less aimed at Europe if its produced and see below.
      $55k for a 400+ horsepower sub-3000 pound sports car? If that is indeed true, this is a home fun.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: The MKV Supra might be awesome - Sub 3000 lbs curb weight, custom BMW I6 turbo powerplant started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 33 Comments
      1. Payam@BMS's Avatar
        Payam@BMS -
        What's the S58?
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Fingers crossed, but I'll believe a sub 3,000lb curb weight (wet) with a tt i6 when I see it.
      1. 135idct's Avatar
        135idct -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Payam@BMS Click here to enlarge
        What's the S58?
        the new M3 engine 2020
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        Fingers crossed, but I'll believe a sub 3,000lb curb weight (wet) with a tt i6 when I see it.
        If it does for $55k might be worth picking up just for fun.
      1. Payam@BMS's Avatar
        Payam@BMS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        If it does for $55k might be worth picking up just for fun.
        Don't forget about 50k mark up in Cali.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Payam@BMS Click here to enlarge
        Don't forget about 50k mark up in Cali.
        Never paid markup, never will.
      1. Torgus's Avatar
        Torgus -
        Sub 3k? Yeah no.
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        If it does for $55k might be worth picking up just for fun.
        With power as it easy at is to make today, I'm far less interested in HP than I am weight. Give me 400+hp at 3,000lb and I love it. Come in at 3,500+, but 500hp and you've lost me.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        With power as it easy at is to make today, I'm far less interested in HP than I am weight. Give me 400+hp at 3,000lb and I love it. Come in at 3,500+, but 500hp and you've lost me.
        Could not agree more. Hence why I always harp on BMW's weight problem.

        If they put as much effort into cutting weight as they did hosepower...
      1. LessIsMore's Avatar
        LessIsMore -
        Cutting weight is a lot harder than adding horsepower, especially for manufacturers and the regulations they have to deal with along with customers expecting more and more features standard, each of which has weight.

        When was the last performance car to come out that weighed under 3000 lbs? Seems really ambitious, even for a small fixed-roof 2-seater.
      1. subaru335i's Avatar
        subaru335i -
        Hard to believe but sounds good.

        The mules in camo people have spotted around look just like a re-skinned Z.
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LessIsMore Click here to enlarge
        Cutting weight is a lot harder than adding horsepower, especially for manufacturers and the regulations they have to deal with along with customers expecting more and more features standard, each of which has weight.

        When was the last performance car to come out that weighed under 3000 lbs? Seems really ambitious, even for a small fixed-roof 2-seater.
        That's exactly why it's all I care about if they're going to make that claim. We already have a $#@!load of 500hp 3,500lb options. We don't need another. Give me 3,000lbs and a decent motor. It's easy enough to get it to any power level I'd want out of it.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LessIsMore Click here to enlarge
        Cutting weight is a lot harder than adding horsepower, especially for manufacturers and the regulations they have to deal with along with customers expecting more and more features standard, each of which has weight.

        When was the last performance car to come out that weighed under 3000 lbs? Seems really ambitious, even for a small fixed-roof 2-seater.
        That's why a lighter car is more impressive. Anyone can do a twin turbo V8...
      1. BLKROKT's Avatar
        BLKROKT -
        Right. I heard from an unnamed source that it will have 6 rocket engines and VTOL capabilities too.

        Nobody cares anymore.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BLKROKT Click here to enlarge
        Right. I heard from an unnamed source that it will have 6 rocket engines and VTOL capabilities too.

        Nobody cares anymore.
        ?

        This is certainly a car to watch.
      1. TEC's Avatar
        TEC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LessIsMore Click here to enlarge
        Cutting weight is a lot harder than adding horsepower, especially for manufacturers and the regulations they have to deal with along with customers expecting more and more features standard, each of which has weight.

        When was the last performance car to come out that weighed under 3000 lbs? Seems really ambitious, even for a small fixed-roof 2-seater.
        You mean the Lotus Evora and Exige? How many of these do you see on the streets? The truth is that this combination sounds good, but it doesn't sell in the US. People want HP and they are willing to pay money for cars that make it no matter how big and heavy they are i.e. Dodge Demon.
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TEC Click here to enlarge
        You mean the Lotus Evora and Exige? How many of these do you see on the streets? The truth is that this combination sounds good, but it doesn't sell in the US. People want HP and they are willing to pay money for cars that make it no matter how big and heavy they are i.e. Dodge Demon.
        Valid point, but I think everyone is in agreement they want light weight, plus a good platform for power. Not a Toyota motor.
      1. Sticky2's Avatar
        Sticky2 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TEC Click here to enlarge
        You mean the Lotus Evora and Exige? How many of these do you see on the streets? The truth is that this combination sounds good, but it doesn't sell in the US. People want HP and they are willing to pay money for cars that make it no matter how big and heavy they are i.e. Dodge Demon.
        Evora and Exige are nowhere near the complete car this will be plus much lighter/bare bones. This will be more like a 718 rival but front engine with BMW I6 power.

        It will sell well if it is what is rumored. The Demon is a one trick pony.
      1. TEC's Avatar
        TEC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky2 Click here to enlarge
        Evora and Exige are nowhere near the complete car this will be plus much lighter/bare bones. This will be more like a 718 rival but front engine with BMW I6 power.

        It will sell well if it is what is rumored. The Demon is a one trick pony.
        The Evora, imo, is a much more complete car than the standard 718 with the exception of a few items. However, since most people have never sat behind the wheel of a Lotus its acceptable for us here in the US not to recognize this.

        From the limited amount of information that has been released I don't see the Supra being much better than either of these cars.

        Honestly as a owner of a BMW I6, I'm not impressed with BMW's ability to build a solid engine that won't try to self destruct after tuning due to design flaws. I honestly wish Toyota would have developed their own power plant.

        The Demon is a one trick pony as is every retro american muscle car that's been introduced in the last 10 years, but try to buy one new at sticker price.
      1. lulz_m3's Avatar
        lulz_m3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TEC Click here to enlarge
        The Demon is a one trick pony as is every retro american muscle car that's been introduced in the last 10 years, but try to buy one new at sticker price.
        What? Seeing how far american cars have come towards providing a complete package over the last few years has been nothing short of remarkable. New Mustangs and Camaros are monsters on and off the track, straightline and corners. Corvette has been an amazing performance package as well.