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    • The sad side of tuning - Flash tuned BMW F90 M5 blows motor and BMWNA denies warranty, wants $59,500 to repair

      This is the side of tuning you do not see mentioned often. Why? Well, if it involves a tuner that is a sponsor of a forum they will usually pressure the forum to delete the thread/post. Additionally, most guys are embarrassed to discuss engine failures or have fanboys jump in saying the person should have used their tuner du jour.


      Read:

      So I had a dme tune, and my motor randomly failed. Still don't know the cause of it. It said drive train malfunction, continue driving. Than the next day, it started super knocking and sounded like a rod was bent inside my motor. I stocked it out and flashed and locked, but bmw na detected the tune, as expected. The cost for a new motor, lines, turbo, cooler, etc totals to $59,500, that I need to pay cash. So I'm looking at my other options here. I might as well rebuild my motor, and I'm pretty sure my turbos are fine. I live in SoCal, orange county to be exact. Does anybody know a legitimate company that can handle this, and warranties their work?
      That sucks. Will DME Tuning step up to help out with the $60k BMW wants? Don't hold your breath. This type of thing is why Dinan is going to see a resurgence in tuning popularity on modern turbo BMW's due to the warranty.

      What happened with this car? Who knows. Maybe bad gas, maybe a bad file, maybe this, maybe that. This is an example though as to why you should go with a trusted tuner who is conservative (glory dyno pulls don't translate to the real world) or one who custom tunes for your particular car with a methanol safety.

      It would be interesting to see a motor teardown to get the full story but that likely won't happen and this will get buried. Read the story, learn from it, and remember the rods on the S63 are the first to go.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: F90 M5 Bent Rods on DME tune started by Blown6 View original post
      Comments 32 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blown6 Click here to enlarge
        I live in SoCal, orange county to be exact. Does anybody know a legitimate company that can handle this, and warranties their work?
        Would be happy to help this guy out. It's sobering what BMW charges. You might as well buy a whole new car.

        Moving to S63TU section.
      1. Blown6's Avatar
        Blown6 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Would be happy to help this guy out. It's sobering what BMW charges. You might as well buy a whole new car.

        Moving to S63TU section.
        I know, it almost makes more sense to build it
      1. Snertz's Avatar
        Snertz -
        They had Ghassan replace it, $17.2k all in, using a reman'd engine.
      1. Sticky2's Avatar
        Sticky2 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Snertz Click here to enlarge
        They had Ghassan replace it, $17.2k all in, using a reman'd engine.
        How do you know? That's a good solution though.
      1. Blown6's Avatar
        Blown6 -
        Quoted:

        original quote was for 14k. They invoices me at the end for 25. Than 19,500. I finally got them down to 17200 delivered. I will have it this week, and let u know how it runs.
        Check out the invoice. I paid for a remanufactured motor, than he tried charging me double for long lock internals.”
      1. Snertz's Avatar
        Snertz -
        ^^yep that. The owner of the car posted the invoices from Ghassan.

        Owner was supposedly on a DME stage 1 tune w/race cats and exhaust. Seems pretty mild for this sort of failure to happen.

        Attachment 59983
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        This is the side of tuning you do not see mentioned often. Why? Well, if it involves a tuner that is a sponsor of a forum they will usually pressure the forum to delete the thread/post. Additionally, most guys are embarrassed to discuss engine failures or have fanboys jump in saying the person should have used their tuner du jour.

        Click here to enlarge

        Read:

        So I had a dme tune, and my motor randomly failed. Still don't know the cause of it. It said drive train malfunction, continue driving. Than the next day, it started super knocking and sounded like a rod was bent inside my motor. I stocked it out and flashed and locked, but bmw na detected the tune, as expected. The cost for a new motor, lines, turbo, cooler, etc totals to $59,500, that I need to pay cash. So I'm looking at my other options here. I might as well rebuild my motor, and I'm pretty sure my turbos are fine. I live in SoCal, orange county to be exact. Does anybody know a legitimate company that can handle this, and warranties their work?
        That sucks. Will DME Tuning step up to help out with the $60k BMW wants? Don't hold your breath. This type of thing is why Dinan is going to see a resurgence in tuning popularity on modern turbo BMW's due to the warranty.

        What happened with this car? Who knows. Maybe bad gas, maybe a bad file, maybe this, maybe that. This is an example though as to why you should go with a trusted tuner who is conservative (glory dyno pulls don't translate to the real world) or one who custom tunes for your particular car with a methanol safety.

        It would be interesting to see a motor teardown to get the full story but that likely won't happen and this will get buried. Read the story, learn from it, and remember the rods on the S63 are the first to go.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Snertz Click here to enlarge
        Owner was supposedly on a DME stage 1 tune w/race cats and exhaust. Seems pretty mild for this sort of failure to happen.
        More people than most realize have bent rods with factory turbos on the S63/S63TU.

        It's pretty easy to ramp in way too much too much torque down low for peak figures and many tuners have done it.
      1. subaru335i's Avatar
        subaru335i -
        Yeah we have heard for years about the rods on these motors being the weak point.

        Something like this is why I went CTS-V over an M5 lol. I can beat the $#@! out of my motor and mod to death and if it blows its like $10k for a fully built motor or way less if you get a remanufactured/used motor like this guy did.
      1. blaster3500's Avatar
        blaster3500 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        More people than most realize have bent rods with factory turbos on the S63/S63TU.

        It's pretty easy to ramp in way too much too much torque down low for peak figures and many tuners have done it.
        It is sad the number of failures people hide or cover up.
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        A bent rod doesn't indicate a bad tune. If the Pistons are intact it is actually indicative of a good tune and the owner pushing past the torque limit of the motor.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        A bent rod doesn't indicate a bad tune. If the Pistons are intact it is actually indicative of a good tune and the owner pushing past the torque limit of the motor.
        I mean you could look at it that way but a tuner should know where to keep the torque if the goal is the keep the engine together.

        APR limits torque for this reason. They could push past the limit too but that's not what the customer is signing up for.
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        A bent rod doesn't indicate a bad tune. If the Pistons are intact it is actually indicative of a good tune and the owner pushing past the torque limit of the motor.

        Edit:. Looks like this was pointed out above... In my opinion, if you're running a car in the 800hp range you should have a good understanding of what you're doing and the risk you're taking with a torque hit like that. The tuner might be at fault for ramping it in too fast, but the owner should understand what they're buying at the same time. One thing I love that APR offers is a 'low torque' file for owners who are more concerned with practicality and reliability than peak figures in useless parts of the powerband.
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I mean you could look at it that way but a tuner should know where to keep the torque if the goal is the keep the engine together.

        APR limits torque for this reason. They could push past the limit too but that's not what the customer is signing up for.
        Lol, you and I think alike.
      1. bnks334's Avatar
        bnks334 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        One thing I love that APR offers is a 'low torque' file for owners who are more concerned with practicality and reliability than peak figures in useless parts of the powerband.
        This pretty much summarizes turbo BMW tuning lol.
      1. 7plagues's Avatar
        7plagues -
        can we also talk about the run around Ghassan gave on pricing... whole situation is sad.
      1. tradin1's Avatar
        tradin1 -
        We've already got CNC heads and sleeved blocks for F90...idk what the big deal is...

        -R
      1. GhassanAutomotive's Avatar
        GhassanAutomotive -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blown6 Click here to enlarge
        Quoted:

        original quote was for 14k. They invoices me at the end for 25. Than 19,500. I finally got them down to 17200 delivered. I will have it this week, and let u know how it runs.
        Check out the invoice. I paid for a remanufactured motor, than he tried charging me double for long lock internals.”
        Original estimate was at $14,000 based on information provided and fair for you to assume. Unfortunately the bent rods damaged the block and additional parts had to be replaced, which are almost impossible to findClick here to enlarge. We ended up losing money on this job just to get a happy customer Click here to enlarge. Car runs like a dream now! P.S I do not believe this is a tuning issue, the rods are simply too weak from the factory, I suggest using better quality fuels and turning the car down a little!
      1. onurleft's Avatar
        onurleft -
        How in the T.F is a random owner in SoCal who brought his car to be flashed going to turn his car down? Some retailer put the most basic of basic files on it. It should work for a long time, at a track day, and it shouldn't bend it driving on congested California roads..
      1. Roll up or pull up's Avatar
        Roll up or pull up -
        Rods look good bro... install em and send it lol