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    • Spool Performance Helix N54 HPFP upgrade beta tester suffers failed injectors

      The BimmerBoost N54 user base became excited at the prospect of an HPFP (high pressure fuel pump) solution for the N54. Suffice it to say this is an area where the N54 proved difficult for tuners but Spool Performance recently stated they have a pump solution.


      The N54 injectors are quite sensitive to BimmerBoost's understanding. There is the possibility setups will fail Conti pumps due to overspinning and fail injectors.

      Here's the problem:

      The problem is just that it still relies on the conti pump.

      Fact is the first guy has failed injectors already with that Helix. Also fact is that the Helix setup overshoots the requested pressure by a lot since there is no real control. Another well known fact is that BMW had a multi million $$$ recall for these OEM conti pumps before overdriving them. 4th fact is that there is no new Conti pumps for sale anymore.
      Many of these pumps already went out in a batch. Let's hope others have better success.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: DOA? Spool Performance Helix N54 HPFP upgrade beta tester suffers failed injectors started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 40 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Post edited to clarify there may be failures not that there will be failures. Obviously the product is still in beta testing.
      1. SJ_1989's Avatar
        SJ_1989 -
        Meh, I'll wait for Spool to release official details. That comment was from XDI I believe on Facebook, who's working on a N54 pump now. Granted all his facts are legitimate, we don't know the details behind the setup running the pump. It's no secret over spinning the pump isn't good for it, I think everyone agrees with that. If that was a 3x pump how is that any different than the shotgun that's been out for how long? Same goes for the control which the shotgun requires no tuning changes. There are also newly discovered control maps now.

        I'd just like to see some data. Everyone is being so secretive about it for some reason. It's not new technology.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SJ_1989 Click here to enlarge
        Meh, I'll wait for Spool to release official details. That comment was from XDI I believe on Facebook, who's working on a N54 pump now. Granted all his facts are legitimate, we don't know the details behind the setup running the pump. It's no secret over spinning the pump isn't good for it, I think everyone agrees with that. If that was a 3x pump how is that any different than the shotgun that's been out for how long? Same goes for the control which the shotgun requires no tuning changes. There are also newly discovered control maps now.

        I'd just like to see some data. Everyone is being so secretive about it for some reason. It's not new technology.
        There's more to it but I don't want to throw anyone under the bus or violate anyone's confidence. This is difficult stuff, clearly.

        All I can say is more info will come and there are more N54 options in the works as far as the HPFP is concerned.
      1. langsbr's Avatar
        langsbr -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The BimmerBoost N54 user base became excited at the prospect of an HPFP (high pressure fuel pump) solution for the N54. Suffice it to say this is an area where the N54 has proved difficult for tuners but Spool Performance recently stated they have a pump solution.


        The N54 injectors are quite sensitive to BimmerBoost's understanding. There is the possibility setups will fail Conti pumps due to overspinning and fail injectors.

        Here's the problem:



        Many of these pumps already went out in a batch.

        Things are not looking good for the Spool Performance Helix solution.
        LOL, lemme guess - XDI is a vendor and Spool isn't? Your post is definitely skewed to make the Spool helix look bad. So far, I've only see the statement from XDI that someone had injectors fail while using the Spool setup, and no definitive way to say that it's the fault of the overdriven pump.
      1. SJ_1989's Avatar
        SJ_1989 -
        Looking forward to the details
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by langsbr Click here to enlarge
        LOL, lemme guess - XDI is a vendor and Spool isn't? Your post is definitely skewed to make the Spool helix look bad.
        I knew it came off that way so I backed off with details and edited. I'm sorry about the timing but would you prefer for me not to post information that could potentially save people issues? Especially if some of it might come from people who are doing actual testing in this field and are experts?

        It would be irresponsible to not say anything.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by langsbr Click here to enlarge
        So far, I've only see the statement from XDI that someone had injectors fail while using the Spool setup, and no definitive way to say that it's the fault of the overdriven pump.
        Well like I said I have more information in this regard but will not post it for reasons you already stated. I want Spool's solution to work as it's creative but there are also concerns. Anything further will come with proper and proven data from independent sources so it does not seem like an attack.

        Sometimes it is tough to balance these things but there is also a duty to report what is going on.
      1. langsbr's Avatar
        langsbr -
        The headline of DOA and the comment of "Things are not looking good for the Spool Performance Helix solution" are clear indicators that it is purely designed to try and bash Spool while promoting XDI. There's been nothing but positive information from the Spool setup on every other forum and the only negative information has come from competitors - one that is scared of losing existing sales, the other that hasn't sold a thing yet.

        I'd believe your intent to balance things if you rephrased the heading and removed the FUD about Spool. But right now, it's all just "Fake news."
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by langsbr Click here to enlarge
        The headline of DOA and the comment of "Things are not looking good for the Spool Performance Helix solution" are clear indicators that it is purely designed to try and bash Spool while promoting XDI.
        Well then to prove that is not the case let me edit further and remove that.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by langsbr Click here to enlarge
        There's been nothing but positive information from the Spool setup on every other forum and the only negative information has come from competitors - one that is scared of losing existing sales, the other that hasn't sold a thing yet.
        Just to be clear on something, XDI doesn't need the N54 market. Also, XDI is as professional as it gets. Nothing they said was wrong.

        This post was something I made as based on the information I have I feel it is the responsible thing to do. Others seem to agree:

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ghassan Automotive
        And that’s why we ditched direct injection on the n54, it’s just not a well developed system. BMW’s first attempt at direct injection. 12 revisions and still a high rate of injector failures.
        See?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by langsbr Click here to enlarge
        I'd believe your intent to balance things if you rephrased the heading and removed the FUD about Spool. But right now, it's all just "Fake news."
        Good and so I will but this is not fake news. The injectors did fail and what is stated is accurate. Where is the fake news?
      1. Weehe's Avatar
        Weehe -
        Buzzfeed clickbait, great reporting. So the fact injectors fail all the time with a stock pump means it's the stock pumps fault?
      1. Sticky2's Avatar
        Sticky2 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Weehe Click here to enlarge
        Buzzfeed clickbait, great reporting. So the fact injectors fail all the time with a stock pump means it's the stock pumps fault?
        Its a shame youre such a negative and petty person.

        If the injectors fail with the stock pump do you think failures will go down when overspinning it and pushing greater pressure through injectors already prone to failure under BMWs development?

        How is reporting a failure on a product that people are following clickbait?

        Maybe temper expectations?
      1. langsbr's Avatar
        langsbr -
        I applaud you for changing the title. I just don't think we can say that an overdriven pump can cause injector failures on a platform known for injector failures. If it becomes a pattern, then perhaps. but the Shotgun has been used, albeit by few people with no reports of failed injectors because of it.
      1. Sticky2's Avatar
        Sticky2 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by langsbr Click here to enlarge
        I applaud you for changing the title. I just don't think we can say that an overdriven pump can cause injector failures on a platform known for injector failures. If it becomes a pattern, then perhaps. but the Shotgun has been used, albeit by few people with no reports of failed injectors because of it.
        This isn’t about targeting anyone it’s about the difficulty in providing a solution for the N54. Look at how long it has been on the market and how many ‘solutions’ have come and gone.

        The most vociferous beta tester got real quiet after his injectors failed. It’s a bad sign unfortunately and the reasons provided to me at least make sense,
      1. Weehe's Avatar
        Weehe -
        So running stock HPFP pressure causes injector failures now? The whole point of any of these upgraded HPFPs are to maintain pressure. Just because people have gotten by at 1000psi while on the ragged edge of usable fuel pressure doesn't mean you want to be at 1000psi.

        I mean just think of it logically. If you have a HPFP that is able to achieve consistent higher pressure at 700whp and injectors fail, every HPFP option will cause injectors to fail. The injectors don't care how the rail pressure is created.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Weehe Click here to enlarge
        So running stock HPFP pressure causes injector failures now?
        I don't think that is it I think part of the problem is the difficulty in controlling pressure.

        Anyway, more details will come.
      1. XDI's Avatar
        XDI -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Weehe Click here to enlarge
        So running stock HPFP pressure causes injector failures now? The whole point of any of these upgraded HPFPs are to maintain pressure. Just because people have gotten by at 1000psi while on the ragged edge of usable fuel pressure doesn't mean you want to be at 1000psi.

        I mean just think of it logically. If you have a HPFP that is able to achieve consistent higher pressure at 700whp and injectors fail, every HPFP option will cause injectors to fail. The injectors don't care how the rail pressure is created.
        The concern is, that neither the OEM HPFP nore the current aftermarket solutions actually hold the rail pressure at what the DME is requesting, which is what the injector is made for.

        If pressure drops down to 1000psi, the DME fires the DI injector longer to compensate for the lower pressure and still get the right amount of fuel in to hold the target AFR. Problem with that is, that the injection window is limiting in a DI engine. You might spray out the exhaust or into compression or even into combustion. This is a new failure mode that not even BMW shops understand yet. I wouldnt be surprised if that did happen already with other upgrades, but was never identified as this.

        If the pressure goes to 3600psi, the piezo stack in the injector has to open against this pressure, which creates forces on the stack that it is not made for.
        Just running the injector at the exact desired pressure will ensure the longest lifetime.
        Yes, the injectors are sensitive already from the factory, but running them at increased pressure increases the risk of failure even more.
        Just like overdriving the Conti pump increases the risk of failure.

        Bottom line is, the OEM fuel system in the N54 is already very prone to failure. As long as you keep using those components, there is no chance to have a durable upgrade path.
      1. Chris@VargasTurboTech's Avatar
        Chris@VargasTurboTech -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by langsbr Click here to enlarge
        I applaud you for changing the title. I just don't think we can say that an overdriven pump can cause injector failures on a platform known for injector failures. If it becomes a pattern, then perhaps. but the Shotgun has been used, albeit by few people with no reports of failed injectors because of it.

        Langs, I know you're a good dude and often show support, but we've sold TONS of shotguns, single and double's, not a few. I don't know anything about the other offerings so I'll refrain from commenting on that... but... fact is these injectors get crankier the more you expect out of them. In fact, on my car right now, are index 12's I got from Tony that lasted 1 (one) dyno pull at over 800 whp DI only before they decided to be the cause of misfires. They work fine at my current power level (5ish) and will probably work fine up until around 700 whp. After that DI only things simply get tougher and to push limits on DI only, you'll change injectors more often than if you have more modest goals. Where is the line? No idea, other than anecdotal evidence...don't really care -once you cross the line into dual pumps with large turbos and multiples of factory power you're kinda on your own. Anyway, long story short, someone had injector issues, no biggie. Click here to enlarge
      1. jyamona's Avatar
        jyamona -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by XDI Click here to enlarge
        The concern is, that neither the OEM HPFP nore the current aftermarket solutions actually hold the rail pressure at what the DME is requesting, which is what the injector is made for.
        The OEM HPFP has no problem holding DME target pressure up until a certain power level / ethanol content. Additionally, the various currently available upgrades are now able to do the same at even higher power levels once the fuel volume model and PID were tuned accordingly.


        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by XDI Click here to enlarge
        You might spray out the exhaust or into compression or even into combustion.
        The DME has upper and lower bounds on the injection window and will not allow this, especially into the combustion stroke. That's a legitimate hard coded limit that you cannot pass even if you try maxing the EOI tables.


        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by XDI Click here to enlarge
        Just running the injector at the exact desired pressure will ensure the longest lifetime.
        What do you consider the "exact desired pressure"? Because even in stock form it varies by load, rpm, and injection mode (single, double, triple). Additionally, the piezo driver has two energy modes, low and hi, designed specifically to allow injection against varying pressures.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jyamona Click here to enlarge
        The OEM HPFP has no problem holding DME target pressure up until a certain power level / ethanol content. Additionally, the various currently available upgrades are now able to do the same at even higher power levels once the fuel volume model and PID were tuned accordingly.
        You know you're speaking to a former Bosch Motorsport engineer and the man responsible for releasing the world's first aftermarket plug and play high pressure fuel pump solutions, right?

        Maybe stick to extorting donations from kids for 'table discovery' rather than lecturing about the design and function of the OEM HPFP.
      1. langsbr's Avatar
        langsbr -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
        Langs, I know you're a good dude and often show support, but we've sold TONS of shotguns, single and double's, not a few. I don't know anything about the other offerings so I'll refrain from commenting on that... but... fact is these injectors get crankier the more you expect out of them. In fact, on my car right now, are index 12's I got from Tony that lasted 1 (one) dyno pull at over 800 whp DI only before they decided to be the cause of misfires. They work fine at my current power level (5ish) and will probably work fine up until around 700 whp. After that DI only things simply get tougher and to push limits on DI only, you'll change injectors more often than if you have more modest goals. Where is the line? No idea, other than anecdotal evidence...don't really care -once you cross the line into dual pumps with large turbos and multiples of factory power you're kinda on your own. Anyway, long story short, someone had injector issues, no biggie. Click here to enlarge
        Sorry, I didn't mean to minimize shotgun sales. There's a growing number of users in the online community, absolutely, but PI is still outnumbering it by a large margin.

        Are you saying that the overdriving nature of the shotgun and helix DOES cause 'premature' injector failure? I thought in the past Tony has said that the index 12s have been pretty robust unless they sit too long with enthanol.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by langsbr Click here to enlarge
        Are you saying that the overdriving nature of the shotgun and helix DOES cause 'premature' injector failure?
        What I gathered is he said it is reliable up to a point but the injectors do not like being pushed so direct injection only can take you only so far...