Close

Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Derbyshire, UK
    Posts
    809
    Rep Points
    1,252.5
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    13


    Yes Reputation No

    Second meth pump?

    Hi guys,
    I'm running port injected meth with a total of 7 nozzles. I'm wondering if it might be beneficial to run a second pump. I would run that pump off the battery using a relay.

    Basically I wonder if 7 nozzles have too much of a pressure drop for a single pump when combined with at least 6 check valves. Also when running 25 psi the pressure differential is reduced.

    I seem to be supplying enough meth although the start up is slower with a 7 nozzle setup. Another option to consider is an accumulator to store pressure between the pump and the solenoid.
    Best:11.79@119mph on stock turbos.
    11.75@127 on GCs.
    FBO+Meth Port injection, GC Turbos, fuel-it stage2, JB4, Trebila flash.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,641
    Rep Points
    10,607.7
    Mentioned
    679 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    107


    Yes Reputation No
    Probably a good idea for twin pumps if you're moving more than say 1500cc/min. But if you want to know for sure monitor line pressure.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 08-09-2017 at 12:00 PM.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Derbyshire, UK
    Posts
    809
    Rep Points
    1,252.5
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    13



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Probably a good idea for twin pumps if you're moving more than say 1500cc/min. But if you want to know for sure monitor line pressure.
    Thanks Terry,
    I have a dc speed controller. Plan to run the main pump at maybe 70% duty from the jb4 and secondary at 50% and slowly adjust up if things look good.

    It looks best to run them in parallel and the flow restrictions will cause the pressure to rise I assume.
    Best:11.79@119mph on stock turbos.
    11.75@127 on GCs.
    FBO+Meth Port injection, GC Turbos, fuel-it stage2, JB4, Trebila flash.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,641
    Rep Points
    10,607.7
    Mentioned
    679 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    107


    Yes Reputation No
    If you are relying on pump PWM to vary flow that might get tricky with two pumps. Easy enough to play with it though. If you are keeping duty below 70% FSB might be find running both of them. Parallel or inline will not really matter for this IMHO. But I think each pump having its own tank pickup, running in parallel, would be the smartest approach.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    2,768
    Rep Points
    2,603.5
    Mentioned
    69 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    27


    Yes Reputation No
    Wouldn't one larger pump make the most sense vs 2? given the complexity and more failure points of 2 pumps etc? Or do they not make a large enough meth compatible pump that you must run two?
    E92 Bren Tune / E90 PTF Tune / E70 Twin Turbo Diesel JBD

    Got Boost?
    Click here to enlarge

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    64
    Rep Points
    134.3
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Yes Reputation No
    Check out the TorqByte CM5-LT controller. I just installed it and it went really smooth. I can control duty cycle on 2 separate pumps on a 16x16 2d map, along with full duty cycle control of 2 individual ouputs. Output1 is my solenoid, and Output2 is a failsafe relay that can be triggered 1, 2, or 3 ways if you like. Right now its just like the JB4, it monitors flow by amperage, with 3 different amperage numbers I set by testing the system in various ways.
    With this controller and about 1600cc of meth, I'm able to run 27psi peak and my HPFP doesn't go below 2100psi. That's all on 1 pump too. I've thought about throwing my old pump in and doing exactly what you are thinking about and running it off just a check valve.
    08 AW E92 XI 6MT
    VTT GCs + VTT Inlets and Outlet + Fuel-it Bucketless + TorqByte CM5-LT Meth Controller + TwistedTuning Meth Plate / Aquamist 200cc Nozzles (E42 + 1550cc Meth) + BMS CP + VRSF DPs + 550i Clutch/MFactory SMFW

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Derbyshire, UK
    Posts
    809
    Rep Points
    1,252.5
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    13



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Wouldn't one larger pump make the most sense vs 2? given the complexity and more failure points of 2 pumps etc? Or do they not make a large enough meth compatible pump that you must run two?
    I'm not aware of any meth compatible pump that can produce twice the pressure or flow of what I currently have.
    Generally the pumps are rated 200 to 300 psi head(pressure) , 1 to 1.2 gallons per hour flow at something like 10 amps and 12v. Pressure dropping off as flow increases.
    Best:11.79@119mph on stock turbos.
    11.75@127 on GCs.
    FBO+Meth Port injection, GC Turbos, fuel-it stage2, JB4, Trebila flash.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    155
    Rep Points
    537.3
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Yes Reputation No
    I tried running 2 meth pumps in series and the extra pressure was 2 much for the main pump. Started shooting meth out of areas it's not supposed to lol.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Derbyshire, UK
    Posts
    809
    Rep Points
    1,252.5
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    13



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sw4y1313 Click here to enlarge
    Check out the TorqByte CM5-LT controller. I just installed it and it went really smooth. I can control duty cycle on 2 separate pumps on a 16x16 2d map, along with full duty cycle control of 2 individual ouputs. Output1 is my solenoid, and Output2 is a failsafe relay that can be triggered 1, 2, or 3 ways if you like. Right now its just like the JB4, it monitors flow by amperage, with 3 different amperage numbers I set by testing the system in various ways.
    With this controller and about 1600cc of meth, I'm able to run 27psi peak and my HPFP doesn't go below 2100psi. That's all on 1 pump too. I've thought about throwing my old pump in and doing exactly what you are thinking about and running it off just a check valve.
    Thanks I will have a look. I'd only seen the ones that act as a fail-over mechanism at this point.
    Best:11.79@119mph on stock turbos.
    11.75@127 on GCs.
    FBO+Meth Port injection, GC Turbos, fuel-it stage2, JB4, Trebila flash.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Derbyshire, UK
    Posts
    809
    Rep Points
    1,252.5
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    13



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    If you are relying on pump PWM to vary flow that might get tricky with two pumps. Easy enough to play with it though. If you are keeping duty below 70% FSB might be find running both of them. Parallel or inline will not really matter for this IMHO. But I think each pump having its own tank pickup, running in parallel, would be the smartest approach.
    Thanks Terry,
    I'd tap the tank for a second outlet to the second pump. The first pump would be jb4 controlled and I'd just try to use something like the solenoid wire to trigger the relay to start and stop the second pump. A separate PCB would be controlling that pump's duty cycle.

    Click here to enlarge
    Best:11.79@119mph on stock turbos.
    11.75@127 on GCs.
    FBO+Meth Port injection, GC Turbos, fuel-it stage2, JB4, Trebila flash.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Derbyshire, UK
    Posts
    809
    Rep Points
    1,252.5
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    13



    Yes Reputation No
    (stronger single pump)

    Maybe someone understands more than I do?

    My current pump is 1.2GPM, 200 psi pressure relief valve

    http://www.aquatec.com/pumps/pressureboosterpumps.html
    Best:11.79@119mph on stock turbos.
    11.75@127 on GCs.
    FBO+Meth Port injection, GC Turbos, fuel-it stage2, JB4, Trebila flash.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    64
    Rep Points
    134.3
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Yes Reputation No
    Can you post some logs of what you are referring to? My self and a friend are both running Twisteds meth plate, but my friend is running 7 370cc nozzles with the aquatec 5800 pump(same as mine) with zero issues. It's controlled by a simple AEM Progressive controller with a failsafe. He's running 30psi on MMPs.
    08 AW E92 XI 6MT
    VTT GCs + VTT Inlets and Outlet + Fuel-it Bucketless + TorqByte CM5-LT Meth Controller + TwistedTuning Meth Plate / Aquamist 200cc Nozzles (E42 + 1550cc Meth) + BMS CP + VRSF DPs + 550i Clutch/MFactory SMFW

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Derbyshire, UK
    Posts
    809
    Rep Points
    1,252.5
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    13



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sw4y1313 Click here to enlarge
    Can you post some logs of what you are referring to? My self and a friend are both running Twisteds meth plate, but my friend is running 7 370cc nozzles with the aquatec 5800 pump(same as mine) with zero issues. It's controlled by a simple AEM Progressive controller with a failsafe. He's running 30psi on MMPs.
    My meth flow seems good but the start up is slower than I'd like. See the trims

    Click here to enlarge


    I have far worse cases than this but I'm struggling to find the logs
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Best:11.79@119mph on stock turbos.
    11.75@127 on GCs.
    FBO+Meth Port injection, GC Turbos, fuel-it stage2, JB4, Trebila flash.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    67
    Rep Points
    75.5
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    I'm having sort of same issue,I just bought new 5800 coolingmist 1.2gpm with a cm10 & cm07 nozzle.my flow is reaching on jb4 interface at line 45.also that's with the screw turned in few turns too.is that too much for a single pump to flow you think?yes I have purged the tank too,no clogging to.so might be best to add in a second pump then?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Derbyshire, UK
    Posts
    809
    Rep Points
    1,252.5
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    13



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xLOGANx Click here to enlarge
    I'm having sort of same issue,I just bought new 5800 coolingmist 1.2gpm with a cm10 & cm07 nozzle.my flow is reaching on jb4 interface at line 45.also that's with the screw turned in few turns too.is that too much for a single pump to flow you think?yes I have purged the tank too,no clogging to.so might be best to add in a second pump then?
    A cm10 and a cm7 should be just fine. I ran a pair of cm7s for a long time on the charge pipe setup I had. Exact same pump.
    Best:11.79@119mph on stock turbos.
    11.75@127 on GCs.
    FBO+Meth Port injection, GC Turbos, fuel-it stage2, JB4, Trebila flash.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,641
    Rep Points
    10,607.7
    Mentioned
    679 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    107


    Yes Reputation No
    WMI flow is used to add octane and bolster fuel pressure. If fuel trims are off adjust those in the BEF directly at the relevant load/engine speed points.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    64
    Rep Points
    134.3
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AWSAWS Click here to enlarge
    My meth flow seems good but the start up is slower than I'd like. See the trims

    Click here to enlarge


    I have far worse cases than this but I'm struggling to find the logs
    You need to modify your fuel scaler down low, that's what is going to fix your trims in the spool up area. Also try using the progressive settings and start meth flow a bit sooner. I've found running 70% @ 6psi, then progressively going up to 100% @ 20psi is a great help to the hpfp during spool. No hpfp dips and she doesn't go below 2100psi with trims at about -5% by the top of the gear @ 27psi.

    If you want, PM me and I can help you out.
    08 AW E92 XI 6MT
    VTT GCs + VTT Inlets and Outlet + Fuel-it Bucketless + TorqByte CM5-LT Meth Controller + TwistedTuning Meth Plate / Aquamist 200cc Nozzles (E42 + 1550cc Meth) + BMS CP + VRSF DPs + 550i Clutch/MFactory SMFW

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Derbyshire, UK
    Posts
    809
    Rep Points
    1,252.5
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    13



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sw4y1313 Click here to enlarge
    You need to modify your fuel scaler down low, that's what is going to fix your trims in the spool up area. Also try using the progressive settings and start meth flow a bit sooner. I've found running 70% @ 6psi, then progressively going up to 100% @ 20psi is a great help to the hpfp during spool. No hpfp dips and she doesn't go below 2100psi with trims at about -5% by the top of the gear @ 27psi.

    If you want, PM me and I can help you out.

    Thank you for your help. I did mention to Trebila about working on the fueling in the tune during the spool up. At the time my lpfp was diving. Now I have a better lpfp. It's staying nice and high. He's on holiday until the end of the month but hopefully we can get back to it.

    Do you do your own flashes? I'd be very interested to see one if you do.

    I'm running a jb4 and I've got meth coming in as soon as possible. Tried triggering on 5 psi and 8 psi. I'm full throttle for a while in that log before it kicks in.
    Best:11.79@119mph on stock turbos.
    11.75@127 on GCs.
    FBO+Meth Port injection, GC Turbos, fuel-it stage2, JB4, Trebila flash.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •