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    15 Macan Turbo PDK/turbo questions

    Does anyone have any reliable information regarding the torque rating for the PDK in the Macan Turbo. I have read on other forums that the Macan PDK gearbox sources parts from Audi's DL501 transmission (from the S6) with a different clutch pack and software. However, there is speculation that this transmission's max torque rating is ~ 400 ft lb (or 550NM) for longevity.
    I have also read that the clutch pack in the macan turbo and gts PDK are more substantial than those on the S.
    Furthermore, is are the turbocharger sizes different between the different trims or is it just engine displacement and ECU programming?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MT15 Click here to enlarge
    Macan PDK gearbox sources parts from Audi's DL501 transmission (from the S6) with a different clutch pack and software. However, there is speculation that this transmission's max torque rating is ~ 400 ft lb (or 550NM) for longevity.
    S6 guys swap on RS6/RS7 turbos and the trans holds so if that were the case it would have to be higher than 400 lb-ft.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MT15 Click here to enlarge
    I have also read that the clutch pack in the macan turbo and gts PDK are more substantial than those on the S.
    Really? Where did you read that?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MT15 Click here to enlarge
    Furthermore, is are the turbocharger sizes different between the different trims or is it just engine displacement and ECU programming?
    The S and GTS have the same turbos but there are other mechanical differences.

    This covers some details: http://www.porscheboost.com/content....urbo-V6-models

    The GTS has stronger pistons, a revised intake, and different cams.

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    Thanks for the quick reply.
    Im sure the transmission can handle the extra torque I would just be worried about launch mode. Its pretty violent.
    As far as the different PDK clutches there are several threads on macanforum.com dedicated to this but there is no reliable info.. just claims and word of mouth. That's why I posted here in case anyone had the inside scoop. Unfortunately there is only one way to really find out what the actual limits of this transmission are over a long period of time with modifications. Macan transmissions have been failing even without mods with relatively low miles, so not sure if they are truly ready for running sweet tunes like COBB for 20k miles with a bunch of launches and racing.

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    A tune will definitely put more stress on the trans but if it was an S6 j it it could take it.

    We have an owner here who drag races his Macan Turbo with a tune. I'll try to get him to chime in.

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    Thanks I will stay tuned..

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    Like you said, in those threads a lot of it is rumors and hearsay. Porsche has said the PDK in the Macan is "geniune Porsche hardware" and I doubt it is based on the Audi DSG's because Porsche likes to design pretty much everything themselves even on shared VAG platforms moreso than any other VAG members.

    ZF makes all of the PDK transmissions and there are two different families. "The first variant, the 7DT-45 – used in the 911 Carrera, the 2009 997 Carrera and Carrera S models; the 2009 Cayman and Boxster, along with a higher torque version, the 7DT-70 in the 2010 911 Turbo.
    The second variant, the 7DT-75 – is used in the Panamera and Macan."

    This is an interesting article that goes into a lot of detail on the differences and features of the two families:

    http://www.just-auto.com/analysis/zf..._id101268.aspx

    "In terms of the oil circuit itself, two completely different approaches have been employed for the two platforms. The 7DT45 and 7DT70 have two oil circuits, and hence two different oils; the first is Pentosin FFL-3 for the clutch and hydraulics, and the second is ExxonMobil Mobilube PTX 75W-90 for the gear-set and bevel gear. The oil levels have been kept as low as possible, to reduce churning losses for those moving parts that are immersed in oil. Conversely, the 7DT75 has a single oil circuit and a dry sump (to minimise churning losses), with an 'active lubrication system' to feed oil to each gear-set and clutch. This version uses only the Pentosin FFL-3 lubricant, which was developed exclusively for the ZF DCTs. One of the main reasons for using a single oil circuit is that clutch cooling is required at both ends of the transmission, for the main dual-clutch module and for the hang-on clutch used in the four-wheel-drive variant. This would have presented significant sealing complications had multiple circuits been chosen."

    There are a lot more details too.

    If you look into more technical detail on the Audi DSG DL501 it appears to be different than either of the PDK's. Notably it has 2 oil circuits unlike the single oil circuit in the Macan/Panamera unit.

    "Audi’s solution was to avoid uneasy compromises and to create two completely separate oil circuits. The mechatronics and hydraulics use 7.5 liters (1.9 gallons) of synthetic ATF, while the gear systems are protected by 4.3 liters of hypoid oil (1.1 gallons). Yet the circuitry is more complex than it sounds: while the transmission oil chamber for the ATF is confined to the clutches, the lower mechatronic block and the oil pump, the hypoid oil must circulate around all the gearsets as well as the center and front differentials."

    https://web.archive.org/web/20091012...ndusIn_pg3.asp
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    Thanks for the great info. Here is what I believe to also be reliable info.... wikipedia lists the Macan transmission as 7DT-75, same as the panamera, and a 100% ZF transmission.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ZF_transmissions

    With respect to the torque capacity, it looks like ZF rates this transmission to either 525 NM or 750 NM on their website, and this depends on what clutch pack you have.

    https://www.zf.com/corporate/en_de/p....shtml#tabs1-1

    The low torque rating clutch pack is the ND2015 and the high torque clutch pack is the ND2216. These are from Sachs.


    http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/...n-ffl-3-fluid/

    If the Macan turbo and GTS have the N2216 clutch pack, then the torque rating is 750-780 NM. Now I just need help figuring this out because its probably proprietary and its not published anywhere. I might need to email Sachs.

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    @F16HTON has a tuned Macan turbo and may have something to add.

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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Wikipedia is wrong and is not a reliable source.

    The Macan PDK is a DL501 derivative. Same transmission that was in my S6, which I abused for three years making well over 700 pounds of torque. AFIAK, not one failure has ever been recorded with any fellow S6 owners who are Stage II or Stage III.

    SSP does make clutch packs if you would like to avoid any further anxiety. Perhaps you may want to call Kris Gagnon up at (605) 359-7829. If you do replace the clutch, it is PARAMOUNT that you have a VERY qualified technician set up the adaptation properly.

    I'm sure Dodson will make some if you pay them.

    If anything, I would be more worried about the electronic transfer box, which is bolted onto the back of the Macan PDK which allows the electromechanical torque split fore and aft. This unit will fail before the clutches will.

    The transfer box is made by Borg Warner and it is virtually the same unit that is on the Cayenne models, which have had a great reputation in the past, but seem to prematurely fail on the Macan.

    Here is a screen cap from a Porsche Cars North America (PCNA) training slide which states the transmission is taken from the Audi platform and has the same hardware, but a higher rated clutch than the Audi.

    Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by F16HTON; 07-12-2017 at 02:21 AM.

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    Here is a screen cap of the PDK transmission cutaway which shows it is the same as a DL501 unit.

    Click here to enlarge

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    Thanks F16HTON. This is the kind of info I was looking for. I did read about the transfer case issue on Macan forum. Seems like the clutch pack should be able to handle launches as well as some increased tq. I dont think I would mess around with the transmission since no one is actually officially certified to service them in the US. Glad to hear the s6 did so well for so long. Which one did you like better the audi or macan... just curious?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by F16HTON Click here to enlarge
    SSP does make clutch packs if you would like to avoid any further anxiety. Perhaps you may want to call Kris Gagnon up at (605) 359-7829.
    I do not recommend doing business with Kris Gagnon. He held my DCT box for over a year to develop parts and never delivered. He returned a broken transmission I had to then get Dodson to fix.

    Dodson is a vendor here and reputable. Kris Gagnon is not.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by F16HTON Click here to enlarge
    which shows it is the same as a DL501 unit.
    I don't doubt that is what it is but I'm missing the DL501 text or confirmation in the pic?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't doubt that is what it is but I'm missing the DL501 text or confirmation in the pic?
    In the text, it states "this particular particular gearbox was taken over from the group platform" meaning VW/Audi. The actual gearbox in the image is clearly a DL501 where they crown center diff is replaced buy the PTM AWD transfer box.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by F16HTON Click here to enlarge
    In the text, it states "this particular particular gearbox was taken over from the group platform" meaning VW/Audi. The actual gearbox in the image is clearly a DL501 where they crown center diff is replaced buy the PTM AWD transfer box.
    So the Macan box is not actually the same as the Panamera one? Cuz the Panamara is a ZF and was designed for that car.
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by subaru335i Click here to enlarge
    So the Macan box is not actually the same as the Panamera one? Cuz the Panamara is a ZF and was designed for that car.
    The Macan, absolutely, positively does not share a gearbox with a Panamera. On the Panamera the belvoid gear connecting shaft runs from the exterior of the tranmission to the motor, where it drives the front differential. On the Macan, the differential is in the front of the clutch, just like the DL501 because it is derived from one.

    Panamera PDK

    Click here to enlarge

    Macan PDK

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by F16HTON Click here to enlarge
    The Macan, absolutely, positively does not share a gearbox with a Panamera. On the Panamera the belvoid gear connecting shaft runs from the exterior of the tranmission to the motor, where it drives the front differential. On the Macan, the differential is in the front of the clutch, just like the DL501 because it is derived from one.
    Excellent posts.

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