Close

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 31
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    23
    Rep Points
    63.1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No

    Question S65 Stroker/Supercharged Build

    Hey guys! I'll keep this short and concise.

    I'm starting a project build using the S65 platform. My first thought is to build a stroked motor and slap on a nice supercharger to make "big numbers". The problem is, there's a lot of information around about builds such as this and I'm left rather apprehensive. Admittedly, I'm not an expert engine builder, nor am I a physicist or mechanical engineer so bear this in mind when evaluating my statements. I am in no way attempting to be make any statements written in stone. I'd like to hear all of your feedback and thoughts on this matter to try and get a better idea of what to do.

    Here's where we are at so far: I have the donor car ready to receive the build so at this time all we have to do is do the build. I'm still in the planning phase of this build and the only thing I have gotten is a block. Specifically, I just picked up a block from ebay for a very good price that was hydrolocked. Since I plan to build a stroked engine I figured this is no big deal at all and any machining/sleeves would render this a very usable block.

    To elaborate on my goals a bit more, I really would like to get at least 700 wheel. My first plan is to go with the PPM stroker kit and a compression of 10:1. I've been speaking with Peter Helmuth from PPM in Australia and he has advised me that he can sell me the same stroker kit they use in their 4.8L race motor. It's an 86mm stroke and a 94mm bore. This sounds absolutely nutty awesome and it's something I'd like to do. He advised me that I don't really need sleeves even with running boosted. Now, this is where my apprehension comes into play. I'm not too sure about all of this. It seems to me that alusil is not exactly the strongest material in the world and sleeves like Darton makes are really great for running in boosted motors. My main concern with sleeves is excessive temperature retention, but again I'm no expert here.

    Before I tackle the supercharger, I'd like to lay out my stroker build first.

    Enlighten me, you boosted heathens Click here to enlarge

    I've attached some pictures of the block I picked up. One of the pictures details a repair that was one on one of the cylinders. Everything looks fine here to be a candidate for a stroker build like this. Thoughts on this block? I don't see anything that jumps out and throws a big red flag

    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlarge
    Last edited by BuiltV10; 03-14-2017 at 01:24 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    122,796
    Rep Points
    34,198.8
    Mentioned
    2203 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    342


    Yes Reputation No
    Well, I don't necessarily think stroking is the best way to go.

    If you look at the history of stroker engines going for big boost they haven't worked out.

    Reinforcing the block is definitely recommended.

    Me? If the goal is max power turbos are the choice.

    That block will work if you intend to sleeve. I also have a similar block I was going to offer you but you already have one which is the first major step.

    94mm is too much IMO for boost. You want to stay close to 92mm which is stock or even go less. You want more material, not less. That stroker kit isn't going to work without problems.

    Not to mention I think people have tried to go past 85mm of stroke but you get issues at that level with oiling. If you are dead set to stroke, check out this article: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...n-for-Stroking

    Regarding not needing sleeves, he's right, look here: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...kit-on-100-E85

    It's when you go past that you really need to look into other options.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    23
    Rep Points
    63.1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Yes Reputation No
    Quality post as usual. Click here to enlarge

    Due to the application of this motor, I'm not inclined to want to run turbos. I've come from the turbo camp (N54), and I had a blast, but I'm ready to get some serious NA gains and eventually throw on a supercharger. A different flavor of fun.

    You've raised several very valid points about the bore being too much at 94. It seems the vendors are really split. Half say it's fine to run at 94 with boost and the other half say it's not.

    Anyway, with the block I got, I paid a few bucks over 500 for it so I figure I got it for a steal. Worse case, I have a nice coffee table.

    What about 85mm stroke and 93mm bore on a sleeved block with 9.5:1 or 10:1 pistons for running double digit boost? This stroke and bore is about 4.6L which is still quite nice. I'm looking at the Harrop kit as well. Cannot decide on the supercharger solution yet.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    122,796
    Rep Points
    34,198.8
    Mentioned
    2203 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    342


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuiltV10 Click here to enlarge
    You've raised several very valid points about the bore being too much at 94. It seems the vendors are really split. Half say it's fine to run at 94 with boost and the other half say it's not.
    Dinan goes 94mm on their bore but it won't be taxed without boost. With boost, I'd expect Dinan's motor to fall apart.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuiltV10 Click here to enlarge
    What about 85mm stroke and 93mm bore on a sleeved block with 9.5:1 or 10:1 pistons for running double digit boost? This stroke and bore is about 4.6L which is still quite nice. I'm looking at the Harrop kit as well. Cannot decide on the supercharger solution yet.
    I think the bore and stroke is fine with sleeves but I'd still go down to 92mm or less. That's just me.

    You can drop the compression for more boost if you like.

    Harrop is not going to get you where you want to go power wise. The torque down low will feel nice though.

    If you are completely set on an SC I would just tell you to buy my SC setup as I went turbo: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    23
    Rep Points
    63.1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Dinan goes 94mm on their bore but it won't be taxed without boost. With boost, I'd expect Dinan's motor to fall apart.
    I think the bore and stroke is fine with sleeves but I'd still go down to 92mm or less. That's just me.
    You can drop the compression for more boost if you like.
    Harrop is not going to get you where you want to go power wise. The torque down low will feel nice though.
    If you are completely set on an SC I would just tell you to buy my SC setup as I went turbo: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale
    I'll note the failure concerns. I'll avoid 94mm bore and consider 93mm at this time. I'm still really set on doing a low compression stroker build though. How do you feel about the VAC kit in general? They are offering me a great deal to get the stroker and have them assemble the bottom end for a great price.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    122,796
    Rep Points
    34,198.8
    Mentioned
    2203 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    342


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuiltV10 Click here to enlarge
    How do you feel about the VAC kit in general? They are offering me a great deal to get the stroker and have them assemble the bottom end for a great price.
    I'm sure they are, it's a nice sale.

    VAC has good stuff for naturally aspirated builds but I've never seen them do a high horsepower stroked S65 V8.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    122,796
    Rep Points
    34,198.8
    Mentioned
    2203 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    342


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuiltV10 Click here to enlarge
    I'll note the failure concerns. I'll avoid 94mm bore and consider 93mm at this time. I'm still really set on doing a low compression stroker build though. How do you feel about the VAC kit in general? They are offering me a great deal to get the stroker and have them assemble the bottom end for a great price.
    Here's the closest thing I have seen from them: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...ump-oil-system

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    23
    Rep Points
    63.1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Update time! Click here to enlarge

    I ordered a ton of parts for this engine build and picked up several big items locally. Pictures to follow tomorrow. This build is happening guys! I'll make sure to document all my steps and results for prosperity. Maybe the motor fails, maybe it does not. We'll just have to see, but I'm giving the stroker/supercharged motor a go. I'm sure I'll get a lot of flame over certain aspects of this build, but oh well. Gotta live life the way you want.

    I just bought the car that will be being swapped. I'll be picking her up this weekend. Reason for getting this car: weight. It's much lighter, shorter wheel base, perfect for building something with great handling. The torsional rigidity is 32,000 N.m which is far more than most cars. The reason I'm building an S65 for this car instead of an S85 is weight and size. With the S65, it will sit further back in the bay than the S54 and weigh much less until I throw on the supercharger which will probably get it to be only a few more pounds heavier, but remember it will be further back for better weight distribution.

    If anyone is wondering what is going to happen to the S54 and trans, I may offer it up for sale when I get closer to pulling it. We'll have to see. I have a feeling grabbing a prepped rolling E30 and dropping in the S54 would be a fun treat.

    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlarge
    Last edited by BuiltV10; 03-15-2017 at 12:09 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    122,796
    Rep Points
    34,198.8
    Mentioned
    2203 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    342


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuiltV10 Click here to enlarge
    I just bought the car that will be being swapped. I'll be picking her up this weekend. Reason for getting this car: weight. It's much lighter, shorter wheel base, perfect for building something with great handling. The torsional rigidity is 32,000 N.m which is far more than most cars. The reason I'm building an S65 for this car instead of an S85 is weight and size. With the S65, it will sit further back in the bay than the S54 and weigh much less until I throw on the supercharger which will probably get it to be only a few more pounds heavier, but remember it will be further back for better weight distribution.
    Logical choices and do it the way you want to.

    This will be an awesome build!

    About time someone did something like it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    23
    Rep Points
    63.1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Logical choices and do it the way you want to.

    This will be an awesome build!

    About time someone did something like it.
    The great thing about doing this build right now in my life is that I'm not worried about finances so this is the perfect time. I've set a budget for this entire build so I believe there is no reason this won't be finished in a reasonable amount of time. Money is all in hand to get $#@! done and get this on the road!

    I'm in talks with Brian from VAC right now about this build. Hopefully we'll come to a good agreement and I can drive over there and drop off my block and get the work started.

    I'm always looking for any suggestions or advice so keep on shelling it out! I'm trying to source out parts for the motor still so if you have an inventory of items send them over for me to take a peek out to see if I need anything. I really need a PS pump right now.

    I'm also digging into the chassis of the car and looking to do full suspension, but that may not be included in this thread due to it's irrelevancy. If everyone would like to know the plan there I can throw it in.

    Boosters ignited, lift off in only a mere moment. Click here to enlarge

    I'm looking for an S85 short block or long block for another project as well. Let me know if you know any for a good price

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    122,796
    Rep Points
    34,198.8
    Mentioned
    2203 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    342


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuiltV10 Click here to enlarge
    o if you have an inventory of items send them over for me to take a peek out to see if I need anything. I really need a PS pump right now.
    Honestly, I have a ton of stuff. I wouldn't even know where to begin heh. The main thing left over right now is the supercharger kit I already linked you to.

    Too bad you didn't get here earlier you could have gotten my exhaust and custom headers. Might have been a tight fit though not sure.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuiltV10 Click here to enlarge
    I'm looking for an S85 short block or long block for another project as well. Let me know if you know any for a good price
    I'll let you know if I come across anything. I need another S65 block for something so if you find one of those let me know.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    23
    Rep Points
    63.1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I actually have a spare S65 block, but it suffered from a spun main bearing. I can ship it if the price is right. I'll be picking it up from the shop next week and I can shoot you some pics.

    As for the supercharger kit, I'm thinking on it still. It's really tempting especially knowing the lengths it performed to. As for headers, I'm doing custom due to fitment issues I have predicted. I picked up some OEM ones for $150 total for both banks and I'll be giving them a shot to see.

    I'm totally lost on how to mount the motor. I'm hoping there's an obscure mount that I could use, but I have a feeling BMW does not produce a mount. I know that the Nxx motors (N52, N55, etc) can mount in E36 and E46 using the Z4 engine mounts, but we'll have to see for this S65. I'll probably need something custom. I won't worry about it until the motor is assembled and ready to go in.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    122,796
    Rep Points
    34,198.8
    Mentioned
    2203 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    342


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuiltV10 Click here to enlarge
    I actually have a spare S65 block, but it suffered from a spun main bearing. I can ship it if the price is right. I'll be picking it up from the shop next week and I can shoot you some pics.
    I'd appreciate that, send me some pics. I have a spare block too but it was for a sleeved application and now I'm not sleeving.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuiltV10 Click here to enlarge
    As for the supercharger kit, I'm thinking on it still. It's really tempting especially knowing the lengths it performed to. As for headers, I'm doing custom due to fitment issues I have predicted. I picked up some OEM ones for $150 total for both banks and I'll be giving them a shot to see.
    I'm not sure if you understand but that is not the supercharger I was running. That is a brand new and smaller blower that is the roughly the same as the sizing of the V3si ESS kits. I was running a Vortech YSI which is much larger but I sold that head unit.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Flexing in the mirror
    Posts
    836
    Rep Points
    1,788.4
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    18


    Yes Reputation No
    Siiickkkkk


    $#@!in hell, gone a few days and things like this start popping up??


    Very well thought out plan so far. Keep the updates coming
    2010 N54 - DocRace - Motiv - CKI - TCKR - Volk - ER - CSF - Vorsteiner

    Click here to enlarge

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    23
    Rep Points
    63.1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by R.G. Click here to enlarge
    Very well thought out plan so far. Keep the updates coming
    Updates it is!

    I picked up an intake manifold (I'll be running for a month or two on the stroker before I SC), headers, and tons of other goodies as you can see pictured. I have parts coming in for the rest of the week and even next week. The block will be heading out next week with any luck and we'll get this show on the road.

    I almost have all the random tid-bits here and there to have a running engine when I throw the top end on my built bottom end. I'll eventually build the top end with cams and better springs, but not for now. Just bottom end.

    A bit of a side note: I don't plan on running stock headers for ever, I mainly got them because they were a good deal and should help me fit the motor in the car. I have no idea if stock headers will fit, but we'll see. I'll report all my findings in depth and with measurements so anyone else can follow in my foot steps.

    I'll have the DCT trans, complete heads, and other parts next week. I'll be sure to include some pictures. Getting the DCT to work in this car is going to be a nightmare. I'm thinking I'll just throw in all the E9x electronics and gauges and get it to "fit" nicely with an OEM look.

    Click here to enlarge

    Side Note: Mods/Admins on ZPOST are a bunch of tally-waggers. They are censoring all my posts referencing BimmerBoost. It's pathetic, really. If anyone wants to follow the thread over on ZPOST it's here. I'll be keeping the threads mostly synced, but I'll focus this one more on the motor and performance of the drivetrain and that thread more on the build of the chassis.
    Last edited by BuiltV10; 03-15-2017 at 06:04 PM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    122,796
    Rep Points
    34,198.8
    Mentioned
    2203 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    342


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuiltV10 Click here to enlarge
    Side Note: Mods/Admins on ZPOST are a bunch of tally-waggers.
    Hahah they sure are!

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    23
    Rep Points
    63.1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Okay so if any of you are wondering why DCT... Because it competes better and any prudent individual would conclude such. Yes, 6 speed is more fun, but I'm building a car for competition, not fun. Anyway, it will be $#@!ing cool to see a running DCT in a Z4MC that is OEM feeling/looking and clean. It could be a helpful DIY for anyone attempting to swap DCT into any 6 speed car and getting it to go in cleanly.


    Update time!


    Here is a pic of the complete head assembly I'll be picking up. I got everything for a reasonable deal so this will really expedite the build. Brian from VAC just got back to me today with a quote on the bottom end. It's expensive but VAC is a top shelf shop with top shelf wrench masters. I'll update more about the engine build as we get closer to sending the bottom off. I'll update this thread again Monday with the project car pics and more part pictures. I plan to assembly everything on a stand to make sure I have everything I'll need. It helps to visualize it all first.


    As a side note, you guys can expect things to keep moving at a good pace. The funds for this project have already been allocated so there won't be any hold ups due to money. If there's a hold up it's going to be with shipping or manufacturing of something.

    Click here to enlarge

    And just for you Sticky, here is a picture of the other block I mentioned (I'll get more of them and more detail on Monday):

    Click here to enlarge

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    122,796
    Rep Points
    34,198.8
    Mentioned
    2203 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    342


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuiltV10 Click here to enlarge
    Anyway, it will be $#@!ing cool to see a running DCT in a Z4MC that is OEM feeling/looking and clean. It could be a helpful DIY for anyone attempting to swap DCT into any 6 speed car and getting it to go in cleanly.
    If you pull it off with a DCT that will be huge. How will you tune it though? You might need to run a Syvecs.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    23
    Rep Points
    63.1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    If you pull it off with a DCT that will be huge. How will you tune it though? You might need to run a Syvecs.
    I'll be running OEM computers. If I have to I'll swap in a body harness from an E92 into my Z and just splice all the connectors for taillights and door locks/switches etc so this way it's a super easy swap. I'll probably fuse the cluster area of the E9X dashboard into the Z dash and get it all refinished in leather so it looks "OEM".

    This seems to be the easiest and cleanest idea. Open to more suggestions too

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    122,796
    Rep Points
    34,198.8
    Mentioned
    2203 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    342


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuiltV10 Click here to enlarge
    I'll be running OEM computers. If I have to I'll swap in a body harness from an E92 into my Z and just splice all the connectors for taillights and door locks/switches etc so this way it's a super easy swap. I'll probably fuse the cluster area of the E9X dashboard into the Z dash and get it all refinished in leather so it looks "OEM".

    This seems to be the easiest and cleanest idea. Open to more suggestions too
    I think this is the right idea. The only reason to look at Syvecs would be if for whatever reason the DCT swap complicates things on the factory computers but if all goes as planned it should work fine.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    23
    Rep Points
    63.1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think this is the right idea. The only reason to look at Syvecs would be if for whatever reason the DCT swap complicates things on the factory computers but if all goes as planned it should work fine.
    I've heard neat things about them. I'll give them a call and get a quote, but it makes more sense right now for me to run with the complete E9X suite of electronics and wiring because then I won't have to get anything to work. I'll just rebuild the dash to fit E9X climate controls, E9X key fob slot, start button, E9X M3 gauge cluster, etc. It won't look weird because I'll have it welded in and leathered up for a nice premium finish.

    Everyone on ZPost is telling me I should do 6 speed, but DCT is far better for laying down a good time at the track. Plus no one does DCT swaps, only 6 speed. I want something different. I'll be using the paddles from a late model Z4 (Think 06 and 07) with the automatic paddle shifters. The Z4M steering wheel can accept those paddle assemblies and I'll use the housings to mount to the steering wheel and swap in the E9X DCT mechanism and paddles for a clean, no one can tell it's not OEM, look.

    VAC wants to take 8 weeks basically to finish the motor so I'll whip the Z stock until I get the motor. Anyone want an S54? Click here to enlarge

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    122,796
    Rep Points
    34,198.8
    Mentioned
    2203 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    342


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuiltV10 Click here to enlarge
    Everyone on ZPost is telling me I should do 6 speed
    Your best bet is to ignore that advice. The DCT simply performs much better.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    23
    Rep Points
    63.1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Your best bet is to ignore that advice. The DCT simply performs much better.
    I'm in complete agreement. Their saying that because they're jealous their cars never came with DCT Click here to enlarge

    Edit: Speaking of DCT, didn't you get some work done by SSP?

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    122,796
    Rep Points
    34,198.8
    Mentioned
    2203 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    342


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuiltV10 Click here to enlarge
    Edit: Speaking of DCT, didn't you get some work done by SSP?
    Oh boy... where to begin with that mess.

    This is a 130 page thread on the topic: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...nd-Viton-seals

    I'll spare you the trouble. SSP didn't work and hung me out to dry. They used my gearbox for development and then told me to go F myself. Class guy that Kris Gagnon.

    Dodson stepped in and delivered a product that could handle the torque.

    I'd stay FAR away from SSP.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    23
    Rep Points
    63.1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Wow, I'll have to go through it all. I like SSP's price but Dodson seems to have a more complete kit. I'll take your warning on SSP. I think the stock DCT is fine for now but I plan on launching like 50 times a day everyday Click here to enlarge

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •