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View Poll Results: Is the R35 GTR a True Supercar?

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  • No

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  1. #26
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    In straight-line speed stock for stock, the gtr gets beat by an M6. And I don't even see an M6 on that lost lol

  2. #27
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    Koenigsegg CCR 7:34(same driver)
    LFA 7:38(same driver)
    ZR1 7:38(same driver)
    Italia 7:38(same driver)
    SLS 7:40(same driver)
    Zonda S 7:44(same driver)
    gallardo sl 7:46(same driver)
    buddy if you dont think that this list has ANY supercars then i wish i was on your level!! but since i guess you didnt look at the rest of the link like i quoted here is more info, the gtr's actual time is 7:24.22 and lets compare
    carrera gt 7:28.71 HA slow piece of $#@! NEXT
    ferrari enzo 7:25.70 cute but still slower
    maserati mc12 7:24.3 close but not there yet!!!!

    In the history of the ring there are 4 other production cars on the planet earth that have went faster, the gt2 and the acr viper i give props, the apollo is a stretch but to me a Radical SR8 LM or a Donkervoort D8 270 RS arent production cars.

    AS far as this "super car" title i think super car looks at performance number and obviously it would qualify and then "exotic car" & "hyper car" would then look at rare materials production numbers in addition to performance numbers.

  3. #28
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    ^ One thing you need to keep in mind is people didn't always do flying starts on the Ring as well. I'm not sure when that started but Nissan totally abused the system and with their R34 they were known to turn the boost up in getting times.

    How do we even know the GTR really hits those lap times the Nissan guys say it does when no one other than them can even come close?

    Calling the Carrera GT a slow piece of $#@! is just ridiculous. The GTR is not faster than a Carrera GT. Also, the ring times are all over the place because it is so driver and condition dependent.

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  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    In the history of the ring there are 4 other production cars on the planet earth that have went faster, the gt2 and the acr viper i give props, the apollo is a stretch but to me a Radical SR8 LM or a Donkervoort D8 270 RS arent production cars.
    And yet you missed this, posted on the North American GTR Owners Club web site...
    http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index....0&#entry621253
    Test weight - 1412kg (3,106 lbs)
    0-100km/h (62 mph) - 3,3s
    0-200km/h (124 mph) - 9,7s (New Record)
    100-0km/h cold/warm - 31,3m/30,1m

    NBR Lap times

    Porsche 997 GT2 RS - 7:24min
    Maserati MC12 - 7:24min
    Pagani Zonda F Clubsport - 7:24min
    Ferrari Enzo - 7:25min
    Porsche Carrera GT - 7:28min
    Ferrari 458 Italia - 7:32min
    Porsche 997.2 GT3 RS - 7:33min
    Nissan GT-R (2012) - 7:34min
    Again the GTR does not even come close to the non supercar pace of the gt2rs! Nor does it come close to the exclusivity of the non supercar gt2rs!

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think it has everything to do with the hype people attribute to the GTR. It is a ~120 trap car, it is slower than a Z06, it really isn't a supercar or all that it is cracked up to be.

    I like the car, a lot, maybe I should have bought one, but I won't sit here with delusions of the GTR being a supercar, it isn't.
    here you go with the trap speed thing again, not everyone is into drag racing so not everyone cares about that, you said your self trap speed is a function of hp, well the car has 485 we know that already!!But lap time is the sum of ALL the performance that the car has to offer and thats why it is the best measuring stick especially if it is done by the same driver and on a track that is almost 13 miles so that a car has plenty of time to show its weakness or dominance!!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe Click here to enlarge
    In straight-line speed stock for stock, the gtr gets beat by an M6. And I don't even see an M6 on that lost lol
    what is your point i dont get it?? are you saying that cuz i own one? like that has anything to do with this debate? everyones input has been intelligent up to this point but bringing in my car just makes no kind of sense lol, But yes your right the gtr will get walked by an m6 but yet the 6 can only manage 8:09!!why because it doesnt do all the OTHER faces of performance as well as the gtr, again straight line acceleration is only 1 thing.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    here you go with the trap speed thing again, not everyone is into drag racing so not everyone cares about that, you said your self trap speed is a function of hp, well the car has 485 we know that already!!But lap time is the sum of ALL the performance that the car has to offer and thats why it is the best measuring stick especially if it is done by the same driver and on a track that is almost 13 miles so that a car has plenty of time to show its weakness or dominance!!
    And according to the GTR website the 458 beats the 12 GTR on this 13 mile track.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    here you go with the trap speed thing again, not everyone is into drag racing so not everyone cares about that, you said your self trap speed is a function of hp, well the car has 485 we know that already!!But lap time is the sum of ALL the performance that the car has to offer and thats why it is the best measuring stick especially if it is done by the same driver and on a track that is almost 13 miles so that a car has plenty of time to show its weakness or dominance!!
    Ok, well I'm saying what I think regarding the trap and comparing it to the Z06 based on that showing it isn't a supercar, as the Z06 isn't and it trails that. The same with the ZR-1, especially around the track. If you want to look at bogus ring times, by all means, knock yourself out.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    what is your point i dont get it?? are you saying that cuz i own one? like that has anything to do with this debate? everyones input has been intelligent up to this point but bringing in my car just makes no kind of sense lol,
    He was actually giving you a compliment and saying that the M6 is faster on the top end than the GTR, which it is.

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  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    ^ One thing you need to keep in mind is people didn't always do flying stars on the Ring as well. I'm not sure when that started but Nissan totally abused the system and with their R34 they were known to turn the boost up in getting times.

    How do we even know the GTR really hits those lap times the Nissan guys say it does when no one other than them can even come close?

    Calling the Carrera GT a slow piece of $#@! is just ridiculous. The GTR is not faster than a Carrera GT. Also, the ring times are all over the place because it is so driver and condition dependent.
    was being sarcastic about the carrera gt in response to a previous ridicules comment that the gtr didnt beat any super cars(not by you). The gt is actually my all time dream car. how do we no that porsche really did there times or ran stock boost on there turbo cars? i think we are reaching now, but for that reason i posted a list with independent test and look at the magnitude of cars that the gtr out performed!! even the slower 7:34 time is faster than the vast majority of lighter more powerfull and more expensive "exotics"

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Ok, well I'm saying what I think regarding the trap and comparing it to the Z06 based on that showing it isn't a supercar, as the Z06 isn't and it trails that. The same with the ZR-1, especially around the track. If you want to look at bogus ring times, by all means, knock yourself out.



    He was actually giving you a compliment and saying that the M6 is faster on the top end than the GTR, which it is.
    with all respect i love my car but i didnt build it so kudos to bmw that a stock m6 walks a stock gtr, the only reason i put so much stock in the ring is because other than that what track can you get times from for so many different cars?? Other than that we have to go back to just flat numbers 0-60, 60-0,skidpad,1/4 mile, slalom, weight, hp, etc etc and then determine what car would be faster

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    was being sarcastic about the carrera gt in response to a previous ridicules comment that the gtr didnt beat any super cars(not by you). The gt is actually my all time dream car. how do we no that porsche really did there times or ran stock boost on there turbo cars? i think we are reaching now, but for that reason i posted a list with independent test and look at the magnitude of cars that the gtr out performed!! even the slower 7:34 time is faster than the vast majority of lighter more powerfull and more expensive "exotics"
    Porsche often supports their ring times with what independent testing achieves or with Walter Rohrl running times for magazines.

    Nissan runs times on their own and then releases them to build hype. They turned the ring into a joke.

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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    with all respect i love my car but i didnt build it so kudos to bmw that a stock m6 walks a stock gtr, the only reason i put so much stock in the ring is because other than that what track can you get times from for so many different cars?? Other than that we have to go back to just flat numbers 0-60, 60-0,skidpad,1/4 mile, slalom, weight, hp, etc etc and then determine what car would be faster
    Laguna Seca?
    Hockenheim?
    Suzuka?

    The ring isn't the be all end all. It is used as a marketing tool now. It is still the yardstick and I respect it but you can't put all your eggs in one basket so to speak.

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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    even the slower 7:34 time is faster than the vast majority of lighter more powerfull and more expensive "exotics"
    Correct! And not one person is taking away from this impressive feat. We are only trying to point out that fast exotics do not automatically create a supercar. Also to be fair, one should only compare the times for the new gt3rs, gt2rs, and 458 to the 12 gtr based on new technology that are built into these new sports cars. By mere mention of the 7 year old Carrera GT competing gives testimate to how fast the GT was!

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@MHP Click here to enlarge
    By mere mention of the 7 year old Carrera GT competing gives testimate to how fast the GT was!
    How about how much tires have evolved since then as well as ring strategy? I would like to see Porsche take the best rubber they can get and set out with the goal of having the best ring conditions possible to do lap after lap to cut the best time to show off.

    The Carrera GT would destroy the GTR, it isn't even a comparison. A simple look at the power to weight as well as the distribution should tell someone that the GTR can't change the laws of physics.

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  14. #39
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    GTR sure riles up people. We should just call it GTrollR hahahaha

    Yes it is a supercar, but is it exotic? No.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LuckyEff Click here to enlarge
    GTR sure riles up people. We should just call it GTrollR hahahaha

    Yes it is a supercar, but is it exotic? No.
    My definition of supercar includes being exotic.

    Yes the GTR is great, but no supercar.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@MHP Click here to enlarge
    In my mind Supercar, Exotic, "Pure" Sports Car, and Grand Tourismo are four seperate and completely different categories for high performance automobiles. Of those 4 which one does the GTR fit?

    Supercar ~ above and beyond anything ever produced in its time period. F40, 959, Enzo, Carerra GT, Veyron...
    Exotic ~ sports car traits with exquisite build materials and quality in very limited production numbers: Most Ferrari's and Lamborghini's, Ford GT...
    Pure Sports Cars ~ cars built for the sole purpose of performance on track: 911 turbo/GT3, GTR, Z06 /ZR1, M3, 427 Cobra....
    Grand Tourismo ~ Highly distinguished autos with power and handling: Aston, XKR, M5, Alpina, AMG, Masarati, Bentley...

    No the GTR is not a Supercar per say but this does not diminish the accomplishments and the performance that it produce.
    A better question would be is the LFA a supercar? Has the GT2RS crossed into supercar territory?
    Very well said, Mike. Agree 100%.

    And to your question posed: I'd say, yes, the LFA is a supercar - albeit, perhaps, a disappointing one (too early to peg it's legacy either way). And IMHO the 997 GT2RS isn't - although it's one of the most impressive sportscars available at present.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Sticky, even with my own German-car bias factored in (have owned several, and they're almost all I look at when considering future purchases), I'm scratching my head how someone can consider the CGT a "true" supercar, but cast-aside the LFA as not worthy of that title.

    To me, they seem so similar in design and execution, produced in limited fashion from a major auto manufacturer, and with somewhat similar philosophies... clean-sheet designs primarily as an engineering exercise in what's possible, with an exotic-car pricetag to match. What "supercar" criteria do you feel the LFA does not meet, that the CGT does?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    How about how much tires have evolved since then as well as ring strategy? I would like to see Porsche take the best rubber they can get and set out with the goal of having the best ring conditions possible to do lap after lap to cut the best time to show off.

    The Carrera GT would destroy the GTR, it isn't even a comparison. A simple look at the power to weight as well as the distribution should tell someone that the GTR can't change the laws of physics.
    A simple look at the power to weight?? the car has changed the laws of automotive physics and to me thats one of its most amazing abilities!! Look in one of my previous post with the cars i listed, the gtr was the heaviest by 400lb and had the least hp and therefore the worst power to weight. Nissan didnt invent awd nor dct trannies but they have executed it the best, a gallardo had had awd with more hp and less weight for years but has not posted the figures the gtr has. on paper 4000lb and 485 cannot do what that car does

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    To me, they seem so similar in design and execution, produced in limited fashion from a major auto manufacturer, and with somewhat similar philosophies... clean-sheet designs primarily as an engineering exercise in what's possible, with an exotic-car pricetag to match. What "supercar" criteria do you feel the LFA does not meet, that the CGT does?
    Could it be look? A friend asked multiple onlookers at the naias and asked them point blank which car cost more? The 2 cars in question the audi r8 and the lexus lfa. After looking at both the exterior and interior 100% of those questioned said the r8. From the outside(I have not seen one in person yet) I will say the lfa does not look like a clean build, but rather something pieced together to cover up a great drivetrain.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
    A simple look at the power to weight?? the car has changed the laws of automotive physics and to me thats one of its most amazing abilities!! Look in one of my previous post with the cars i listed, the gtr was the heaviest by 400lb and had the least hp and therefore the worst power to weight. Nissan didnt invent awd nor dct trannies but they have executed it the best, a gallardo had had awd with more hp and less weight for years but has not posted the figures the gtr has. on paper 4000lb and 485 cannot do what that car does
    Did Auto Car run the old GTR at the ring? The stock horsepower in Nissans original ring time has been widely disputed.

    Back to the original and post that ties in with your comment how does it compare on the race track as a race car? I posted up a vid some time back of goto racings gtr vs a griggs live axle mustang and thunderhill and the racing is extreme! Track ready mustang keeping up with a track ready gtr? No way!
    http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...at-Thunderhill!

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    LOL when are ring times the definite measure for a supercar. No average person can achive the ring times posted by manufactures. On any given day the GTR will outperform most of the cars that where around when it came out. It is a super car with super performance
    Click here to enlarge

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    GTR is a great car , and people that hate on it are fools, stubborn fools, with out even driving it claiming it feels robotic, again fanboys, well I drove it and if it feels robotic then robotic feeling is the best feeling, It's a japanese cheap super car yes it is their supercar so is LFA

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by n54BoostOnCoke Click here to enlarge
    GTR is a great car , and people that hate on it are fools, stubborn fools, with out even driving it claiming it feels robotic, again fanboys, well I drove it and if it feels robotic then robotic feeling is the best feeling, It's a japanese cheap super car yes it is their supercar so is LFA
    Well said
    Click here to enlarge

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    Its all about the definition of a supercar. In my books supercar is expensive, very limited production, requires a real race track such as F1 tracks or similar to be relatively fast, is very unpractical, no trunk, 2-seater and just suck in many ways for any convenience daily driving.

    In comparison, GTR is convenient, better performing practical car that runs circles around the supercars in the snow, rain, gravel, normal traffic and performs comparatively well against the supercars in tracks such as Nordschleife. It is even a quite sensible purchase. So no, GTR is absolutely not a supercar.
    Last edited by 654; 11-08-2010 at 12:51 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
    Sticky, even with my own German-car bias factored in (have owned several, and they're almost all I look at when considering future purchases), I'm scratching my head how someone can consider the CGT a "true" supercar, but cast-aside the LFA as not worthy of that title.

    To me, they seem so similar in design and execution, produced in limited fashion from a major auto manufacturer, and with somewhat similar philosophies... clean-sheet designs primarily as an engineering exercise in what's possible, with an exotic-car pricetag to match. What "supercar" criteria do you feel the LFA does not meet, that the CGT does?
    You are right in your assessment, the LF-A would lean toward that category far more than the GTR. Your statement as a "disappointing" supercar would be spot on.

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