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    Issues with: MT Race Flash on 335i 2009 DCT (Non USA model)

    After having the tune on for 2 weeks, I've provided Terry with these further observations that i wanted to share with you for advice.


    So just to clarify, i'm from Australia, and have an: e92 335i DCT, FBO + Meth, on MT Race Flash (as Terry recommended).


    When i'm in standard mode (no sport button), the car pulls like a freight train.


    When i'm in standard/manual mode (no sport button, knob pushed to the right). the car pulls like a freight train.


    When i press the sports button, or the DTC (one press or hold down) here's where all the problems begin!!


    The car feels not as responsive, or willing to accelerate. When put my foot down for WOT, the gears rev out but feel like the DCT is slipping and the power or pull just isn't there.


    This all happens if i press the 'sport' button, DTC (one push) or DTC (hold down) in any scenario.


    Would this be happening because it's the MT flash? It would make sense because the MT does not have 'sports mode', and the gear box may be acting strange as a result?


    I'm surprised you haven't had any other DCT's outside of Australia give you this feedback? I know Edwin also mentioned he had issue with the BB flash doing weird things on his DCT..


    What are the consequences of me flashing the 335is map? Will it allow even if my firmware is different?


    I'm really worried about this, as my RB's will be installed in 2 days - and i need to make absolutely sure the car is running 100% before this happens. I need your support to getting to the bottom of this.


    Ian

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    In the US only the IS has the dct to my knowledge, maybe try that? What version of software is stock over there, if there's an xdf available you can easily port the changes to your stock .bin manually

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    I've asked Terry this question exactly, and his said it's not possible to do.

    My firmware version is IJE0S.

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    It looks like your solution although not solving the problem completely is to not press the sport button.

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    Hey Ian,

    I personally think you should flash via COBB. I think there's something that BB flash isn't telling the DCT's Control unit. The DCT is much like a women. Needs lots of rubbing and caressing to keep it happy. Don't do this and she'll (DCT) quickly let you know it's not on. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It looks like your solution although not solving the problem completely is to not press the sport button.
    Yeah i was thinking the same Sticky, but it's not the ideal situation cos it's just not right.. know what i mean?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dirty Dog Click here to enlarge
    Hey Ian,

    I personally think you should flash via COBB. I think there's something that BB flash isn't telling the DCT's Control unit. The DCT is much like a women. Needs lots of rubbing and caressing to keep it happy. Don't do this and she'll (DCT) quickly let you know it's not on. Click here to enlarge

    Thanks Dirty Dog!! Annoying thing is i asked Terry this exact question before i decided on which flash i should be running and he suggested the BB one..

    I've since been emailing Wedge, who knows exactly what the issue is and has given me a flash to use for non US DCT's. I haven't tried it yet, but the fact he knows exactly what i'm talking about is very comforting and he is a wealth of knowledge.

    I will report back with results/impressions once done.

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    There are two tables this car has for sport or non sport functions ie Sport on/off. I would bet the second table is not defined correctly as it is of no use to non sport button N54's

    You cannot be without that Sport button for higher torque or else you will tear up the DCT. If you concerned about slippage going WOT with Sport Off or not working is an invite to inevitable trouble

    Get yourself a Cobb AP and be done with it rather than risking it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    There are two tables this car has for sport or non sport functions ie Sport on/off. I would bet the second table is not defined correctly as it is of no use to non sport button N54's

    You cannot be without that Sport button for higher torque or else you will tear up the DCT. If you concerned about slippage going WOT with Sport Off or not working is an invite to inevitable trouble

    Get yourself a Cobb AP and be done with it rather than risking it.
    Care to share which tables you think they are in ATR?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dirty Dog Click here to enlarge
    Care to share which tables you think they are in ATR?
    > Torque Request Tables

    Requested Torque %(High)
    Requested Torque %(Low)

    Revert both tables back to stock values specific to the N54 with DCT. The values that usually come from the MT and AT N54 cars is a no no for a N54 DCT car.

    The Requested Torque %(Low) is the active table for Sport On

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    Oh dear... Back to stock flash i go.

    Thanks for the info Buraq.

    Its alarming that Terry is suggesting this to DCT owners outside of the USA - even when proactively questioned about this.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by _ink Click here to enlarge
    Oh dear... Back to stock flash i go.

    Thanks for the info Buraq.

    Its alarming that Terry is suggesting this to DCT owners outside of the USA - even when proactively questioned about this.
    All you need to do is revert those tables on the tuned map back to the N54 DCT stock values. From what I gathered is that you are using TP for the backflash end so it could be that part of the table is not defined correctly for perhaps the ROM version of your car. I doubt seriously Terry suggested something incorrectly unless he never got the specifics in the beginning.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by _ink Click here to enlarge
    Oh dear... Back to stock flash i go. Thanks for the info Buraq. Its alarming that Terry is suggesting this to DCT owners outside of the USA - even when proactively questioned about this.
    No disrespect intended but I'm afraid Buraq has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. The sport on/off mapping is fully defined within the BB flash under throttle request high and low tables. The issue is more likely related to your unique application in the Z4 DCT. I don't think the ila0s 335is flash maps will work for you. Having someone work up a custom back end flash based on your BIN does seem like a good idea. Try TP first if that doesn't work then switch to Cobb for back end flashing. I do agree you should run the OEM flash and low boost until you can get it sorted out. If you do have DCT slippage due to some flash issue it's certainly not good for the clutch packs.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 05-12-2014 at 01:50 PM.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  13. #13
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    No disrespect intended but I'm afraid Buraq has absolutely no idea what he is talking about.
    So would you mind pointing out what it is I have no idea what I am talking about ?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    The sport on/off mapping is fully defined within the BB flash under throttle request high and low tables. The issue is more likely related to your unique application in the Z4 DCT. I don't think the ila0s 335is flash maps will work for you.
    Now he has a Z4 DCT ? The OP said he has a 335i DCT (Euro). Could this be why I have no idea what I am talking about ? I am going based on the info the OP posted

    Just as how you would think the ILA0S_IS ROM will not work for him is the same exact thought I felt about the "MT Flash" which he never mentions what ROM the MT Flash is for which lead me to believe it was a ROM for a none DCT N54

    Do you still think I have no idea what I am talking about ?


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Having someone work up a custom back end flash based on your BIN does seem like a good idea. Try TP first if that doesn't work then switch to Cobb for back end flashing. I do agree you should run the OEM flash and low boost until you can get it sorted out. If you do have DCT slippage due to some flash issue it's certainly not good for the clutch packs.
    Similar I suggested, just need you to point out what I have no idea what I am talking about ?

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    Hey OP just open your stock bin, load the IJE0S XDF, and load the mt backend into the compare bin. Then just port over the important tables by copy and paste for all it matters, there's not many. AFR, timing, Vanos, load targets, and the nannies that get disabled namely. Why are you giving up without trying? It's very easy.

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    I don't know if this will be helpful. But I have a 2010 Z4 35i with a DCT. It's running flash only, how I got it to work was I used the IJE0S Pump gas map and then I compared it to a stock map (using defined fields only) and copied them all over, and then I went into the .bin file with a hex editor and changed the VIN in there. Then I put the Shiv Stage 0 tune on it, and it works just fine, with or without the sport button, or DTC on or off.

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    My car is identical to the OP's car, 335i DCT (AU Version) with IJEOS. As he won't be running any ethanol however will have RB's and meth the backend flash is quite easy to create. I have left the Requested Torque values as stock however increased my Load to Torque values. Just not as high as some others have it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dirty Dog Click here to enlarge
    My car is identical to the OP's car, 335i DCT (AU Version) with IJEOS. As he won't be running any ethanol however will have RB's and meth the backend flash is quite easy to create. I have left the Requested Torque values as stock however increased my Load to Torque values. Just not as high as some others have it.
    Can you post a log ? I would like to see what you post timing looks like after you modifed this table....thanks

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    Can you post a log ? I would like to see what you post timing looks like after you modifed this table....thanks
    All logs are 3rd-4th gear shifts. Just what you want to see. Post shift timing is strong as hell. I have more logs but they are on my other computer with even more boost and strong post shift timing into 4th.

    Bye Bye Timing Flatline Click here to enlarge



    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  19. #19
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    So would you mind pointing out what it is I have no idea what I am talking about ?
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ
    There are two tables this car has for sport or non sport functions ie Sport on/off. I would bet the second table is not defined correctly as it is of no use to non sport button N54's
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    Now he has a Z4 DCT ? The OP said he has a 335i DCT (Euro). Could this be why I have no idea what I am talking about ? I am going based on the info the OP posted Just as how you would think the ILA0S_IS ROM will not work for him is the same exact thought I felt about the "MT Flash" which he never mentions what ROM the MT Flash is for which lead me to believe it was a ROM for a none DCT N54 Do you still think I have no idea what I am talking about ?
    Typo above on the model. I know the ILA0S_IS ROM won't work because I've tried it with other non IS DCT cars. The DCT uses the same load tables as the step. FWIW when this started I looked at Ian's logs and didn't really notice anything out of place with regards to transmission operation. Load in the logs looks as it should. He reports these slow downshifts, odd DCT behavior in sport mode, etc, but it sounds like fairly normal DCT behavior in my experience. I suggested he hire a tuner who has the time to go through everything with him step by step to address whatever concerns he has. Wedge is a good option if using the free software or PTF is fine if he wants to try the Cobb option. It also turns out DD has a twin car so if he goes the Cobb back end flash route he'll have a great starting point.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Typo above on the model. I know the ILA0S_IS ROM won't work because I've tried it with other non IS DCT cars. The DCT uses the same load tables as the step. FWIW when this started I looked at Ian's logs and didn't really notice anything out of place with regards to transmission operation. Load in the logs looks as it should. He reports these slow downshifts, odd DCT behavior in sport mode, etc, but it sounds like fairly normal DCT behavior in my experience. I suggested he hire a tuner who has the time to go through everything with him step by step to address whatever concerns he has. Wedge is a good option if using the free software or PTF is fine if he wants to try the Cobb option. It also turns out DD has a twin car so if he goes the Cobb back end flash route he'll have a great starting point.
    Agree. DCT's have a strange way of doing things. Sometimes mine does crazy sh!t and I wonder what it's thinking but i love it. The best bet for Ian is a COBB backend flash. All he needs is two maps made in ATR. One with an aggressive timing curve on RB's and meth (maybe 8 degrees ramping up to 12) and one conservative map for Daily driving. Of course there's other tables that need to be altered to suit but the BMS COBB backend flashes do provide most of what one needs to get started.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dirty Dog Click here to enlarge
    All logs are 3rd-4th gear shifts. Just what you want to see. Post shift timing is strong as hell. I have more logs but they are on my other computer with even more boost and strong post shift timing into 4th.

    Bye Bye Timing Flatline Click here to enlarge

    Huh, timing flatline even with DCT ? That post shift timing is what I pictured you having when modifing the Load to Torque table. My timing at post shift looked something like that at first but I reverted back to stock and started over with that table and tweeked it till there was none to seldom post shft negative timing

    Click here to enlarge


    Still a map I am working on though and far from completed

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    Huh, timing flatline even with DCT ? That post shift timing is what I pictured you having when modifing the Load to Torque table. My timing at post shift looked something like that at first but I reverted back to stock and started over with that table and tweeked it till there was none to seldom post shft negative timing

    Click here to enlarge


    Still a map I am working on though and far from completed

    Looks good man.

    I use to suffer from post shift timing on my DCT. Here's a log. And another one with 12.5 degrees post shift into 4th.

    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  24. #24
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    There are two tables this car has for sport or non sport functions ie Sport on/off. I would bet the second table is not defined correctly as it is of no use to non sport button N54's
    To clear things up as to what exactly in that statment was me stretching my neck out on an assumption

    The two tables that reflect the Sport on/off per Cobb

    Click here to enlarge

    I guess thats not what your pointing at.........

    So based on the info provided by the OP and knowing the history of TP and how XDF files can be a nightmare is why I assumed they werent defined correctly. I have seens guys try to flash with XDF and bins that are not even for their ROMs.

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    OP have you flashed our 335i DCT transmission with the transmission software from the Z4 DCT? as it's currently popular in Germany.

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