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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rdeterman Click here to enlarge
    Curious to see how Omega does this year. A few Alpha 20's are coming also
    Where'd you hear this?? Not that I doubt it, but I find it odd that AMS just released an Alpha 16, no words on an Alpha 18 and just straight to 20. Three very high level packages in a very short time would be very impressive for AMS.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rdeterman Click here to enlarge
    2012 LP570-4 Superleggera Curb weight 2954lbs

    2012 Nissan GTR Curb weight 3821lbs

    867lbs stock for stock. GTR is almost 30% heavier to begin with.
    Not that it balances out for the 850 lbs+ difference, but you're adding A LOT of extra stuff to the Lambo for it to go TT, specifically the Air/Water intercooling system. The GTR is just getting a lot more, VERY beefy reinforced parts.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    Frontal area isn't an issue...if that was the case then explain why motorcycles have worse drag than cars despite having an infinitely smaller frontal area.
    If drag was the issue why did the Gallardo win? Obviously these are all variables along with power to weight.

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  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Where'd you hear this?? Not that I doubt it, but I find it odd that AMS just released an Alpha 16, no words on an Alpha 18 and just straight to 20. Three very high level packages in a very short time would be very impressive for AMS.


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    this is where the alpha 20 ref came from

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  4. #54
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    Downfall vids are so played out I don't want to watch them anymore.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Downfall vids are so played out I don't want to watch them anymore.
    i know i feel the same.. but if u havent seen this one. is almost worth it lol
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  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Where'd you hear this?? Not that I doubt it, but I find it odd that AMS just released an Alpha 16, no words on an Alpha 18 and just straight to 20. Three very high level packages in a very short time would be very impressive for AMS.



    Not that it balances out for the 850 lbs+ difference, but you're adding A LOT of extra stuff to the Lambo for it to go TT, specifically the Air/Water intercooling system. The GTR is just getting a lot more, VERY beefy reinforced parts.
    AMS,Switzer and ETS have all posted on the GTR forum they have 2000hp packages coming to TX2K for testing and will be available to the public soon after. Its ridiculous

    If Sticky doesn't mind I can post the links
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    Frontal area isn't an issue...if that was the case then explain why motorcycles have worse drag than cars despite having an infinitely smaller frontal area.
    Because frontal area is only a small portion of the calculation. There's more variables.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Where'd you hear this?? Not that I doubt it, but I find it odd that AMS just released an Alpha 16, no words on an Alpha 18 and just straight to 20. Three very high level packages in a very short time would be very impressive for AMS.



    Not that it balances out for the 850 lbs+ difference, but you're adding A LOT of extra stuff to the Lambo for it to go TT, specifically the Air/Water intercooling system. The GTR is just getting a lot more, VERY beefy reinforced parts.
    Tony Palo, owner of T1 Race development has the AMS Alpha 20 package going on his personal GTR.
    Details on their fb page. Check out that custom exhaust Click here to enlarge

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    https://www.facebook.com/T1racedevel...type=1&theater

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oldgixxer Click here to enlarge
    AMS,Switzer and ETS have all posted on the GTR forum they have 2000hp packages coming to TX2K for testing and will be available to the public soon after. Its ridiculous

    If Sticky doesn't mind I can post the links
    I do not mind. Need to get my own GTR info going.

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  11. #61
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    All this does is make me want to get NisasnBoost up. Which I will. Today damn you.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    If drag was the issue why did the Gallardo win? Obviously these are all variables along with power to weight.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    Because frontal area is only a small portion of the calculation. There's more variables.
    Drag is drag, regardless of frontal area. In this case the GTR's drag advantage isn't enough to overcome a car with less weight, a wider powerband(most likely) and more power.

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    Drag is drag, regardless of frontal area. In this case the GTR's drag advantage isn't enough to overcome a car with less weight, a wider powerband(most likely) and more power.
    Frontal area is frontal area regardless of drag. What is your point? Yes, the drag advantage isn't nearly enough to overcome the other disadvantages going to show cd isn't the big deal some make it out to be. Bikes show that as well don't they?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    All this does is make me want to get NisasnBoost up. Which I will. Today damn you.
    Sticky,the truth shall set ye free: you secretly lust for the robot knows as R-35 Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Frontal area is frontal area regardless of drag. What is your point? Yes, the drag advantage isn't nearly enough to overcome the other disadvantages going to show cd isn't the big deal some make it out to be. Bikes show that as well don't they?
    Bikes prove my point that drag is more detrimental to performance than frontal area which people seem to confuse.

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    Bikes prove my point that drag is more detrimental to performance than frontal area which people seem to confuse.
    The point is they are all variables to differing degrees.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The point is they are all variables to differing degrees.
    Frontal area is a variable in the equation for drag...that is my point. The frontal area doesn't matter if the end result is less drag...because frontal area is only a part of the equation but not the end all so you can't say the gallardo has an aero advantage.

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    Frontal area is a variable in the equation for drag...that is my point. The frontal area doesn't matter if the end result is less drag...because frontal area is only a part of the equation but not the end all so you can't say the gallardo has an aero advantage.
    Considering the Gallardo has less frontal area and as speeds rise wind resistance increases I don't see how one can say this isn't an advantage versus an object with greater frontal area.

    Yes, the surface area is factored in but lowering a car affects this, changing a wing affects this, etc. You are going by quoted figures likely and regardless the GTR loses so cd isn't that big of a deal. The Gallardo does have less frontal are and is lower to the ground.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    Frontal area is a variable in the equation for drag...that is my point. The frontal area doesn't matter if the end result is less drag...because frontal area is only a part of the equation but not the end all so you can't say the gallardo has an aero advantage.
    What I'm trying to say is Cd is not static but varies with speed.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What I'm trying to say is Cd is not static but varies with speed.
    Cd is static unless you have adjustable aero like F1 cars with drag reduction. A bike always has less frontal area but drag squares as speed doubles so it slows down drastically on the top end. If what you are saying is correct then the bikes frontal area would allow it to keep running away from a car on the top end.

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    Cd is static unless you have adjustable aero like F1 cars with drag reduction. A bike always has less frontal area but drag squares as speed doubles so it slows down drastically on the top end. If what you are saying is correct then the bikes frontal area would allow it to keep running away from a car on the top end.
    I'm not a fluid dynamic theorist but: Cd is not a constant but varies as a function of speed, flow direction, object position, object size, fluid density and fluid viscosity.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    Cd is static unless you have adjustable aero like F1 cars with drag reduction. A bike always has less frontal area but drag squares as speed doubles so it slows down drastically on the top end. If what you are saying is correct then the bikes frontal area would allow it to keep running away from a car on the top end.
    How? I didn't say frontal area was the dominant factor I said it was a variable and that drag increases as speeds rise.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm not a fluid dynamic theorist but: Cd is not a constant but varies as a function of speed, flow direction, object position, object size, fluid density and fluid viscosity.
    Cd is constant which is why it's measurable. But I agree that drag does change with the environment.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    How? I didn't say frontal area was the dominant factor I said it was a variable and that drag increases as speeds rise.
    All i've been saying is frontal area is a variable but all that really matters is the final Cd figure when it comes to stating whether a vehicle truly has an aero advantage. Constantly talking about frontal area would be like saying a gallardo spyder has the aero advantage over a GTR because it's frontal area even with the top down.

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ak335i Click here to enlarge
    let me help u since i love you

    this is where the alpha 20 ref came from

    http://youtu.be/DQFFI5kVwL8
    LMAO I saw this and was dying.... "We can ask for more boost", "I am not going to risk putting the rods out of my 3.8L. I need a 4.4L immediately."
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  25. #75
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    Cd is constant which is why it's measurable. But I agree that drag does change with the environment.
    Why does the definition say it is not constant then? The drag clearly has to change based on speed/resistance. If v in the equation for Cd is speed then doesn't it by default change with speed?

    The drag coefficient Click here to enlarge is defined as:
    Click here to enlargewhere:

    Click here to enlarge is the drag force, which is by definition the force component in the direction of the flow velocity
    Click here to enlarge is the mass density of the fluid
    Click here to enlarge is the speed of the object relative to the fluid
    Click here to enlarge is the reference area.

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