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  1. #1
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    2016 B9 A5 to drop 200 pounds - Twin turbo 4.0 TFSI V8 for the RS5?

    Car and Driver is reporting that that the next generation B9 A5 expected to bow in at a 2016 model year car next year will drop 200 pounds thanks to extensive use of aluminum. That is not really news and pretty much expected as Audi is aggressively cutting weight across the entire lineup. What is interesting to note is that Car and Driver reports the RS5 will get a 4.0 liter twin turbo V8 powerplant to challenge the Mercedes C63 AMG and BMW M4.

    If that is the case both Mercedes and Audi will have 4.0 liter V8's in their sport coupes while BMW will offer the smallest displacement at 3.0 liters and two less cylinders. As the latest comparison test featuring the RS5 versus the C63 showed the RS5 4.2 liter naturally aspirated V8 is simply outmatched in grunt by Mercedes and BMW.

    What will output be? Considering this motor should be a variant a 4.0 TFSI seen in the S6, S7, S8, RS6, RS7, etc., power ranging from 420 horsepower 560 horsepower Audi can pick and choose which flavor of the 4.0 TFSI they want to use based on what Mercedes does with the M177 4.0 liter twin turbo in the C63.

    The advantage the RS5 will offer is all wheel drive (no 4Matic all wheel drive for the C63) as well as dual clutch and manual options. The C63 will again offer an automatic so the only dual clutch rival in the segment is BMW.

    If this information is all correct, the RS5 may be the winner of the next generation battle.

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    Nice

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    The S4 should get the S6 engine and the RS4 should get the RS7 engine.
    The 4.2L RS5 was a major disappointment due to the lack of forced induction and should have launched with this engine to begin with.
    If AMG screws up the C63 by not offering a DCT and AWD, a RS4/RS5 with a lighter curb weight than the current model will make a nice alternative to the 4,400lb S6.

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    Will a 200lb drop be enough to be competitive with the M4 in the handling department? If I'm not mistaken that will still put it around 3,800lbs.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rs97 Click here to enlarge
    Will a 200lb drop be enough to be competitive with the M4 in the handling department? If I'm not mistaken that will still put it around 3,800lbs.
    The M3/M4 drop is only 80kg or 176lbs, with the marketing 3,300lbs BS asside. The M4 should be about 280+ lbs less than the RS5. Considering the RS5 will have awd, not that bad.

    Just going by weights on the respective websites.

    E92 M3 3,704 - 80kg/176lbs = 3,528
    B8 RS5 4,009lbs - 200lbs = 3,809

    So contrary to how BMW has been marketing the M3/M4 weight savings. The weight difference from the current generation M3/RS5 should actually narrow with the next generations.
    Last edited by BlackJetE90OC; 02-13-2014 at 05:40 PM.

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    AWD is worth the extra weight for a daily driver, especially on that needs to deal with cold winters.

    Besides, if you want a lightweight RWD performance car, you buy a Corvette.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    AWD is worth the extra weight for a daily driver, especially on that needs to deal with cold winters.

    Besides, if you want a lightweight RWD performance car, you buy a Corvette.
    Unless you want a M3 that can carry more than two passengers and want to be able to attend a track on occasion.

    Also not everyone lives where it snows.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rs97 Click here to enlarge
    Will a 200lb drop be enough to be competitive with the M4 in the handling department? If I'm not mistaken that will still put it around 3,800lbs.
    Considering how the current RS5 performs despite its atrocious balance it's going to be close. The M4 is going to be the lightest and most tossable of the bunch though.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    Besides, if you want a lightweight RWD performance car, you buy a Corvette.
    I love four seat Corvettes.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    Unless you want a M3 that can carry more than two passengers and want to be able to attend a track on occasion.

    Also not everyone lives where it snows.
    It's idiotic to compare a Corvette to these cars. I'm sick of hearing the same thing over and over and over as if we aren't aware of cars that exist.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TT C6 Click here to enlarge
    The S4 should get the S6 engine and the RS4 should get the RS7 engine.
    I love where your head is, but a motor that is making nearly 800hp with a tune and race is not going to be put in a compact sedan. If we're VERY lucky, the RS4 will have a detuned S6 motor.

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    Sounds like a winner to me. Already love the RS5 interior and exterior styling, add some more performance (MUCH NEEDED) and you got a winner. I think the RS5 and M4 are both better choices than the C63, and honestly for me I'd probably go the Audi RS5 route. I just feel the Audi is worth more than either regardless of actual MSRP
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
    I love where your head is, but a motor that is making nearly 800hp with a tune and race is not going to be put in a compact sedan. If we're VERY lucky, the RS4 will have a detuned S6 motor.
    The RS4 should have something along the lines of the S8's motor.

    The S4/S5 will likely get a twin turbo version of the supercharged V6.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Sounds like a winner to me. Already love the RS5 interior and exterior styling, add some more performance (MUCH NEEDED) and you got a winner. I think the RS5 and M4 are both better choices than the C63, and honestly for me I'd probably go the Audi RS5 route. I just feel the Audi is worth more than either regardless of actual MSRP
    Was at Audi today. The RS models just look and feel special somehow. More than an M these days.

    The RS5 is poised to be the big winner. Let's see if they deliver.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's idiotic to compare a Corvette to these cars. I'm sick of hearing the same thing over and over and over as if we aren't aware of cars that exist.
    +1

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I love four seat Corvettes.
    I loves vettes with baby seats!!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The RS4 should have something along the lines of the S8's motor.
    My money is on it being most similar to the A8 motor. The S8 is very similar to the RS6/7 spec. The A8 motor is making 474/508whp on 93/100 after a tune which will be damn fast in that car. I'd think these cars will be knocking out low 10's at close to 140 with RS6/7 turbos/tune/racegas.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
    My money is on it being most similar to the A8 motor. The S8 is very similar to the RS6/7 spec. The A8 motor is making 474/508whp on 93/100 after a tune which will be damn fast in that car. I'd think these cars will be knocking out low 10's at close to 140 with RS6/7 turbos/tune/racegas.
    They won't give it the RS6/RS7 turbos or else there is no reason to buy an RS6/RS7.

    I'd say the S8 turbos simply because those are smaller. This car will need around 500 horsepower as that is what Benz is packing. So, the S8 is the most logical choice I think.

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    The m3 has never had the largest motor yet it's balance, all around performance, and dynamics make it the winner every time. It's bmw's formula....now they are trying it with a FI power plant. It's going to be real good.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    The m3 has never had the largest motor yet it's balance, all around performance, and dynamics make it the winner every time. It's bmw's formula....now they are trying it with a FI power plant. It's going to be real good.
    It's never had the largest mtor but it's never lacked muscle. The C32 had the same size engine as the E46 M3 with the a blower and yet the E46 M3 gave up nothing in acceleration (it was about a car length faster per my own testing to settle forum $#@! talking) and was way better balanced.

    We'll see what happens. These people equate the better car to the faster car and it's kind of stupid. BMW's have been so good for so long because they are well rounded.

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    Still no want...Audi doesn't seem to understand the concepts of balance and feel from what I've seen. The Top Gear test of the current RS 5 is all you need to see. It's appalling. I will admit I haven't been in one yet but I can't imagine it would be any different than any other Audi - numb, capable, slightly boring. The M3/4 will be lighter, more fun, more interesting...the RS 5/RS 4 are heavy as unholy hell for how small they are...and they aren't exactly tuned for throttle-steering despite all the asymmetric quattro BS.

    Also, I think the bigger thing is that VAG sees it fit to use the same engine in everything from an A4 to the CGT. That's a huge statement to make. They aren't interested in a smaller displacement, more bespoke engine for the smaller S/RS models at all, it seems.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
    Still no want...Audi doesn't seem to understand the concepts of balance and feel from what I've seen. The Top Gear test of the current RS 5 is all you need to see. It's appalling. I will admit I haven't been in one yet but I can't imagine it would be any different than any other Audi - numb, capable, slightly boring. The M3/4 will be lighter, more fun, more interesting...the RS 5/RS 4 are heavy as unholy hell for how small they are...and they aren't exactly tuned for throttle-steering despite all the asymmetric quattro BS.

    Also, I think the bigger thing is that VAG sees it fit to use the same engine in everything from an A4 to the CGT. That's a huge statement to make. They aren't interested in a smaller displacement, more bespoke engine for the smaller S/RS models at all, it seems.
    The BMW will likely be the most interesting and entertaining of the bunch. So, pretty much the same as always.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They won't give it the RS6/RS7 turbos or else there is no reason to buy an RS6/RS7.

    I'd say the S8 turbos simply because those are smaller. This car will need around 500 horsepower as that is what Benz is packing. So, the S8 is the most logical choice I think.
    My understanding is that the S8 & RS6/7 turbos are the same or, if not, very similar. There is only a 40whp delta between these cars on 100 octane which, I'd guess based on previous RS models, is due to more aggressive cams and headwork.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Here is a useful little graphic comparing dynos of the various 4.0tt's. I've read that the RS6/7 received a few extra tricks that had not been incorporated into the S8 tune which came out first. Since updating the S8 tune it is even closer to the RS6/7 numbers.

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
    My understanding is that the S8 & RS6/7 turbos are the same or, if not, very similar. There is only a 40whp delta between these cars on 100 octane which, I'd guess based on previous RS models, is due to more aggressive cams and headwork.
    I e-mailed Audi asking for a detailed explanation and they said they would give it to me but I never heard back :/

    I haven't heard of the heads or cams being different I think it's a difference in the turbochargers themselves but I do not know. I wish we had a complete breakdown.

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