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  1. #76
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    I used to run a stock 2JZ motor in my Supra for the first few years while I was racing it.

    I had slightly larger cams, but they were still relatively small (264 Intake and a 272 exhaust). The head gasket was stock, the head bolts were stock, the head was never ported and all the internals were stock. I ran a stock Supra intake manifold and throttle body, the intake manifold was ported and the throttle body had the traction control throttle blade removed. I ran a factory ECU that was tuned and an HKS VPC. My car was set up for drag racing and it would go 8.30's all day on that set up. Some weekends it would dip into the teens depending on atmospheric conditions. I used a small 720cc injector running VP C16.

    For anyone that says that my car was super light I will say this. The minimum weight requirement in my class was 2350lbs. and I had over 800lbs. of penalty weight added to my car to slow me down. I used to run this car in the 1990's when these motors were not that old and, at that time, nobody believed that my motor was stock. The one thing that everybody could see is that we used a small 720cc injector, factory ECU and stock manifold and throttle body. Nowadays, nobody doubts that what we were saying isn't true. I ran this motor for 3 straight years without a failure. During that time I would say that I put more passes on that car than any other import car has in 3 years.

  2. #77
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    UAE have no money problem for pay the most powerfull Supra or the fasted or all that I can dream

    Petrol = $$$
    Sorry for my bad english Click here to enlarge

    ///M one day
    ///M everyday
    My videos of Youtube Click here to enlarge

  3. #78
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    Lol what a crazy thread. First of all DI is WAY WAY WAY better for performance the PI and its not even close. The issue isnt DI sucks it's that DI is new and the aftermarket hasnt gotten a hold of how to upgrade it. But when you can fully control one of these motors on a standalone with sufficient fuel it is going to blow your mind how much timing and CR these DI motors will take. Being able to spray fuel during the compression stroke and when the valves are closed have a huge effect on increasing effective octane so you will be able to run unheard of #'s on 93. This is like people who were reluctant to embrace fuel injection vs a carb because at first no one knew how to upgrade or control it. Now its no contest.

    Second no the N54 should not need a billet blocl to reach 2j power levels. The VQ35 is aluminum open deck and there are several 2000hp+ motors out there NON billet blocks. And people make 1500whp with stock 2j blocks and cranks, just rods pistons studs and head work.

    Third this whole 2j took 10 years to reach 1000whp(it didnt) so the n54 has 10 years is ridiculous. First of all 1000whp aint what it used to be, just like money hp figures suffer from inflation. Over time parts get better techniques get better, turbos have improved TREMENDOUSLY etc. The simple fact is look at the S65 and VR38, to hear sticky tell it the S65 is a better motor, its been out longer, is more plentiful, bigger displacement etc yet the VR38 makes more than double the hp the S65 does right now and took less than 5 years to reach 2000hp!

    In short VR38>2jz>n54>S65 for very high power builds and at some point the n54 might leap frog the 2j but we are a WAYS away from that.

  4. #79
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    Oh and in case y'all forgot why the GTR is the baddest $#@! out here is a reminder lol.


    http://www.gtrlife.com/forums/topic/...oes-811176mph/

  5. #80
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Lol what a crazy thread. First of all DI is WAY WAY WAY better for performance the PI and its not even close.
    Based on what? Port injection dominating everything performance related?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    The issue isnt DI sucks it's that DI is new and the aftermarket hasnt gotten a hold of how to upgrade it.
    DI IS NOT NEW!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    But when you can fully control one of these motors on a standalone with sufficient fuel it is going to blow your mind how much timing and CR these DI motors will take
    You use race fuel and what won't take high compression and advanced timing?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    And people make 1500whp with stock 2j blocks and cranks, just rods pistons studs and head work.
    That block is made out of iron. The N54 block is going to need some serious work to support 1500+.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    yet the VR38 makes more than double the hp the S65 does right now and took less than 5 years to reach 2000hp!
    Forced induction motors from the factory always have the advantage with upgrade paths.

    Let's see what the S65 does with turbos, shall we?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    In short VR38>2jz>n54>S65 for very high power builds
    Just plain idiotic.

  6. #81
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Probably not out there...maybe the new Z07, but we'll see. That was his point with the N54 though, 720whp+ on stock fuel system, stock motor, etc...name another car that has done that? There aren't many motors out there reaching those power levels in the same fashion the N54 did. I do have a feeling that we will need a bottom end billet option to see big power out of these, but when we do....oh boy...just wait. I think people forget how long it took for the 2jz to start making a name for itself, it didn't happen over night. Took what? 10-12 years before it saw 1000hp?

    You guys are ignorant as $#@!... A direct injection fuel system is tunable to run 800whp stock injectors and fuel pump all you do i relay them a mess with the pressure settings bif deal... thats the dumbest argument ever... n54 is a pile of $#@!.... end of story 335s are gayer then aids... lets talk transmissions because that 1900whp supra is on a stock 6 speed tranny. can a stock 6mt 335 even go 200mph+

  7. #82
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Based on what? Port injection dominating everything performance related?



    DI IS NOT NEW!



    You use race fuel and what won't take high compression and advanced timing?



    That block is made out of iron. The N54 block is going to need some serious work to support 1500+.



    Forced induction motors from the factory always have the advantage with upgrade paths.

    Let's see what the S65 does with turbos, shall we?



    Just plain idiotic.
    At one point carbs dominated everything whats your point? DI is new in that now we have the computer technology and machining capabilities tobreally extract its benefits. Saying DI isnt new because a crude attempt was used 50 years ago is like saying electric cars arent new technology because there were electric cars at the start of the last century. The IDEA isnt new but until now are we able to really get it going.

    Here educate yourself

    www.psfc.mit.edu/.../08ja002_full.pdf look up alot of papers from the sloan auto lab too.

    alot of block work as in what? Wet sleeves, that will take care of it same as the VQ and darton charges $1500 for that.

    your statement is correct FI motors from the factory are more upgradeable but not for the reasons you think. Because the factory knows the extra stress the FI will bring they are generally much beefier in ways you cant easily fix in the aftermarket. I have told you time and again just because one motor has more CI or cylonders doesnt automatically mean it has more "power potential" as you like to say. Deck strength and sealing, mains strength, main and head bolt diameter and length those are all things a fi motor from the factory typically has over a lightweight NA motor like the S65.

  8. #83
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    At one point carbs dominated everything whats your point?
    Carbs are completely different technology.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    DI is new in that now we have the computer technology and machining capabilities tobreally extract its benefits. Saying DI isnt new because a crude attempt was used 50 years ago is like saying electric cars arent new technology because there were electric cars at the start of the last century. The IDEA isnt new but until now are we able to really get it going.
    It isn't new, fact. You still haven't stated why direct injection is better somehow. It isn't. Port injection dominates performance.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    alot of block work as in what? Wet sleeves, that will take care of it same as the VQ and darton charges $1500 for that.
    You have no idea what weaknesses the N54 block will have that need to be addressed for 1500+ if it ever gets there. You really think you just add some sleeves and that's that?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    your statement is correct FI motors from the factory are more upgradeable but not for the reasons you think. Because the factory knows the extra stress the FI will bring they are generally much beefier in ways you cant easily fix in the aftermarket.
    You're underestimating the quality of components and stress a high revving motor sees. The reason you see upgrades faster isn't because of anything being beefed up for forced induction (N54 is the perfect example of a cheap block and parts) but just because it's already turbocharged.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    I have told you time and again just because one motor has more CI or cylonders doesnt automatically mean it has more "power potential" as you like to say. Deck strength and sealing, mains strength, main and head bolt diameter and length those are all things a fi motor from the factory typically has over a lightweight NA motor like the S65.
    I'm not basing it on displacement solely. Cubic inches, plus revs, plus heads, plus everything. Everything is in the favor of the S65 in this argument.

    What the S65 has over the motors you mention is the ability to rev higher, increase its stroke further, and it simply is a better design for top end power.

  9. #84
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 600whp S4 Click here to enlarge
    You guys are ignorant as $#@!... A direct injection fuel system is tunable to run 800whp stock injectors and fuel pump all you do i relay them a mess with the pressure settings bif deal... thats the dumbest argument ever... n54 is a pile of $#@!.... end of story 335s are gayer then aids... lets talk transmissions because that 1900whp supra is on a stock 6 speed tranny. can a stock 6mt 335 even go 200mph+
    So much information here is missed and its giving me a headache. To this guy I quoted, the supra 6spd and e46 m3 6spd's are extremely identical. To the point to where supra guys have successfully swapped the e46 m3 trans over. Now, why mention that? The e46 m3 transmission is backward compatible with the 335i. In fact, I am going to swap in the gs6 from a 335i into my car. What needs to be changed you ask? Clutch and flywheel and there's a kit available. Driveshaft is within 1mm difference in length so that is also carried over unmodified. Lets post facts and gain knowledge.

    Next. Any gtr making over 1000whp is a billet engine. There's a reason they all run 4l billet engines, also the reason they cost upwards of $60k to build which is in today's market $15k more than the price of a pristine e92 m3. Key word billet. With billet manufacturing the sky is the limit. You can do whatever you want to an engine and make massive numbers. Ugr cars, billet. Lmr billet. To make big power it requires billet parts. There's only a handful of engines capable of making over 1300 hp without using billet parts. A 5.3 gm lq4? Comes to mind.

    Seperate glory runs from actual consistency. A company can produce a car to make thousands of hp, but how long will it last? There's thermal efficiency and that's what will limit a cars ability to produce hp. The lower the heat and pressure the more power. There's a reason you don't see 15-1600 hp 911's running around.

    We can't compare one market to another. The USDM market is different than the Japanese market and the euro market. When Toyota built the supra HKS had their hands on one just like Hennessy and the preproduction C7 recently. There was a market established for the Supra when it debuted. What also simplified the aftermarket was the 7M and 1jz which the latter was a direct predecessor to the 2jz. Unlike the N54 and N55, which predecessors were totally different engines, it's a whole new ball game. We can assume how quickly the 5.0's aftermarket took off, but DOHC engines have been around for decades and the information was laid out. It was also simplified by using port injection rather than direct injection.

    Now, direct injection is not new. It's been around since 2006 in turbocharged cars. There is plenty of information regarding fueling issues. To note, Mazda speed 3's don't have issues with making 500 whp. When they cross that threshold they are "capped" because of engine displacement, heat, and fuel. That's why there are no 600 whp ms3's flying around. So good luck.

    The BMW tuning market is small and not many people want to be the test dummies. It's far too costly and risky for a lot of people. 700 hp is plentiful when suspension, brakes, and aero are not even up to par. You have to go slow and approach every aspect and critical detail of manufacturing processes and eliminate weak points. It's the purpose of r&d which is the stage the n54/n55 engine is in.

    Lastly, the S54 is still the best damn engine bar $#@!ing none.
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  10. #85
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What the S65 has over the motors you mention is the ability to rev higher, increase its stroke further, and it simply is a better design for top end power.
    To caveat. The ability to rev determines how much hp you can make. The S65 revs to the moon and breathes so damn well, it just makes power. The S85 also shows this on 9.5 psi and was able to make 700 whp? To put this into perspective a C6 Z06 requires full bolt ons and the same blower to make the same numbers. How's that for volumetric efficiency when you're down 2 full liters of displacement.
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  11. #86
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    So much information here is missed and its giving me a headache. To this guy I quoted, the supra 6spd and e46 m3 6spd's are extremely identical. To the point to where supra guys have successfully swapped the e46 m3 trans over. Now, why mention that? The e46 m3 transmission is backward compatible with the 335i. In fact, I am going to swap in the gs6 from a 335i into my car. What needs to be changed you ask? Clutch and flywheel and there's a kit available. Driveshaft is within 1mm difference in length so that is also carried over unmodified. Lets post facts and gain knowledge.

    Next. Any gtr making over 1000whp is a billet engine. There's a reason they all run 4l billet engines, also the reason they cost upwards of $60k to build which is in today's market $15k more than the price of a pristine e92 m3. Key word billet. With billet manufacturing the sky is the limit. You can do whatever you want to an engine and make massive numbers. Ugr cars, billet. Lmr billet. To make big power it requires billet parts. There's only a handful of engines capable of making over 1300 hp without using billet parts. A 5.3 gm lq4? Comes to mind.

    Seperate glory runs from actual consistency. A company can produce a car to make thousands of hp, but how long will it last? There's thermal efficiency and that's what will limit a cars ability to produce hp. The lower the heat and pressure the more power. There's a reason you don't see 15-1600 hp 911's running around.

    We can't compare one market to another. The USDM market is different than the Japanese market and the euro market. When Toyota built the supra HKS had their hands on one just like Hennessy and the preproduction C7 recently. There was a market established for the Supra when it debuted. What also simplified the aftermarket was the 7M and 1jz which the latter was a direct predecessor to the 2jz. Unlike the N54 and N55, which predecessors were totally different engines, it's a whole new ball game. We can assume how quickly the 5.0's aftermarket took off, but DOHC engines have been around for decades and the information was laid out. It was also simplified by using port injection rather than direct injection.

    Now, direct injection is not new. It's been around since 2006 in turbocharged cars. There is plenty of information regarding fueling issues. To note, Mazda speed 3's don't have issues with making 500 whp. When they cross that threshold they are "capped" because of engine displacement, heat, and fuel. That's why there are no 600 whp ms3's flying around. So good luck.

    The BMW tuning market is small and not many people want to be the test dummies. It's far too costly and risky for a lot of people. 700 hp is plentiful when suspension, brakes, and aero are not even up to par. You have to go slow and approach every aspect and critical detail of manufacturing processes and eliminate weak points. It's the purpose of r&d which is the stage the n54/n55 engine is in.

    Lastly, the S54 is still the best damn engine bar $#@!ing none.
    Wtf are you talking about? No one has a billet gtr motor anywhere in the world. Second only an idiot would spend 60k on the motor of a GTR making 1000whp. My friends motor made 1259whp on 100% stock head, only pistons, rods and bolts thats it. Cost to build that is probably under 8k. My motor should be good for 1500whp+ and I dont have 15k in it no $#@!ing way let alone 60k. People talk out of their ass so much its amazing. No wonder you like the S54 LOL

  12. #87
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Even those 800 whp motors are on borrowed time. They are not run like that daily they get dialed back quite a bit for driving around.

    Regardless, you will want to upgrade the internals if you want to run hard at that power level.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Wtf are you talking about? No one has a billet gtr motor anywhere in the world. Second only an idiot would spend 60k on the motor of a GTR making 1000whp. My friends motor made 1259whp on 100% stock head, only pistons, rods and bolts thats it. Cost to build that is probably under 8k. My motor should be good for 1500whp+ and I dont have 15k in it no $#@!ing way let alone 60k. People talk out of their ass so much its amazing. No wonder you like the S54 LOL
    exactly not even ams on there alpha omega is running a billet block ! And they are running the car at over 1700 whp and just ran the quarter in 7.9. Let's not talk about hypothetical potential based on revs, heads, BMW sauce, etc. talk about what's been done and obviously from a true enthusiast stand point the vr38/ gtr dominate speed if that's what your after. I don't own one nor do I want to since that's not what I'm after but respect it for what it is and look at it from an unbiased perspective.

    also to the guy asking which other modern engine has been tested to 720+whp on the stock internals, fuel system, ECU , etc. I for one know the m156/m159 has. Weistec is testing a c63 black series at 790whp on a completely stock car down to the transmission minus a valve body upgrade. That's just one example the n54 is not the second coming of Christ .... Or 2jz

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    Also S65 v10 made almost 720 whp stock motor so there's another example. And both from less efficient blowers

  14. #89
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    exactly not even ams on there alpha omega is running a billet block ! And they are running the car at over 1700 whp and just ran the quarter in 7.9. Let's not talk about hypothetical potential based on revs, heads, BMW sauce, etc. talk about what's been done and obviously from a true enthusiast stand point the vr38/ gtr dominate speed if that's what your after. I don't own one nor do I want to since that's not what I'm after but respect it for what it is and look at it from an unbiased perspective.

    also to the guy asking which other modern engine has been tested to 720+whp on the stock internals, fuel system, ECU , etc. I for one know the m156/m159 has. Weistec is testing a c63 black series at 790whp on a completely stock car down to the transmission minus a valve body upgrade. That's just one example the n54 is not the second coming of Christ .... Or 2jz

    Do you just post so you can hear yourself talk? You're dumb. Let's see billet gtr blocks.

    http://blog.amsperformance.com/2013/...8-short-block/

    http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/n...e_package.html

    http://www.titanmotorsports.com/nissan-gtr-stroker.html

    no billet motors? That's 2 right there. Alpha 10 and up has a 4.4l stroker.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Wtf are you talking about? No one has a billet gtr motor anywhere in the world. Second only an idiot would spend 60k on the motor of a GTR making 1000whp. My friends motor made 1259whp on 100% stock head, only pistons, rods and bolts thats it. Cost to build that is probably under 8k. My motor should be good for 1500whp+ and I dont have 15k in it no $#@!ing way let alone 60k. People talk out of their ass so much its amazing. No wonder you like the S54 LOL
    You have no clue about how the higher classed enthusiast work so I'll pardon you with this. Go to youtube, click on the search bar, then type gtr alpha 12. That's how many are willing to spend two times the amount of a used gtr. And since you're just as dumb as the other guy I posted links to ams and Titan motorsports billet blocks.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    Next. Any gtr making over 1000whp is a billet engine. There's a reason they all run 4l billet engines, also the reason they cost upwards of $60k to build which is in today's market $15k more than the price of a pristine e92 m3. Key word billet. With billet manufacturing the sky is the limit. You can do whatever you want to an engine and make massive numbers. Ugr cars, billet. Lmr billet. To make big power it requires billet parts. There's only a handful of engines capable of making over 1300 hp without using billet parts. A 5.3 gm lq4? Comes to min
    Thank you. People act like you strap bit turbos to the GTR and it makes 2000 whp. The upper HP builds are VERY expensive. No different than building up an M3 really. You change just about everything.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    The BMW tuning market is small and not many people want to be the test dummies. It's far too costly and risky for a lot of people. 700 hp is plentiful when suspension, brakes, and aero are not even up to par. You have to go slow and approach every aspect and critical detail of manufacturing processes and eliminate weak points. It's the purpose of r&d which is the stage the n54/n55 engine is in.
    And again well said.

    Test dummy, keyword dummy, right here.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
    Also S65 v10 made almost 720 whp stock motor so there's another example. And both from less efficient blowers
    There is hope for people yet.

    Some people here actually do get it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    To caveat. The ability to rev determines how much hp you can make. The S65 revs to the moon and breathes so damn well, it just makes power. The S85 also shows this on 9.5 psi and was able to make 700 whp? To put this into perspective a C6 Z06 requires full bolt ons and the same blower to make the same numbers. How's that for volumetric efficiency when you're down 2 full liters of displacement.
    So it boggles my mind why I need to keep repeating this to people. The S65 will always win versus the N54. The N54 really isn't even in its league. Yet I have to keep explaining this over, and over, and over...

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    Wait til you see this one from ugr. Billet, billet, billet. Wonder what that cost? Expensive. Sad thing is to these two that are clueless, this isn't even close to their fastest.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Exactly right.

    The S65 is about to make the N54 looks like a child's toy and it's been on the market for less time...
    This is a really late post here, but no the S65 is not 'about to make' anything; not with companies charging $25k for a stroker build or $12k for a simple supercharger kit. Sure there's going to be some impressive power figures and awesome builds coming out, but if you throw enough $$$ at anything, you can make it fast; there's nothing ground-breaking about that.

    There is a TON of potential in the S65, imo moreso than most engines on the market today. The heads flow a ridiculous amount of air and the engine is setup to handle a lot of rpm. BUT (and this is a big but), the aftermarket costs are astronomical. And I mean that literally. Those who convince themselves that it's 'not that bad' have been living under a rock, performance-wise.

    There's a lot to love about the S65, but you're deluding yourself if you think the S65 is going to 'show' the N54 anything other than it's group of owners being a bunch of suckers that can't even do their own oil or spark plug changes.

    EDIT: What I'm worried about is the S55 coming along and ending the aftermarket for the S65. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    Wait til you see this one from ugr. Billet, billet, billet. Wonder what that cost? Expensive. Sad thing is to these two that are clueless, this isn't even close to their fastest.

    http://www.lamborghini-talk.com/vbfo...ld-sale-19185/
    I really wouldn't mind a billet block myself...

    How about a 4.6 liter S65 revving to 9k with a DCT an twin GT35R's? Yeah the GTR can suck my dick.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    This is a really late post here, but no the S65 is not 'about to make' anything; not with companies charging $25k for a stroker build
    You seriously think a stroker costs $25k?

    What do you think a crank, pistons, and rods is going to run you? If anyone is dumb enough to pay $25k they deserve to be paying Dinan's mortgage.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    or $12k for a simple supercharger kit
    It depends where you want to go. You can get an SC kit for $8k. Regardless, get an SC and you have 600 whp that is actually usable and reliable. No fuel pump nonsense, no turbo lag, no limp modes, it just works and MOVES.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    There is a TON of potential in the S65, imo moreso than most engines on the market today. The heads flow a ridiculous amount of air and the engine is setup to handle a lot of rpm. BUT (and this is a big but), the aftermarket costs are astronomical. And I mean that literally. Those who convince themselves that it's 'not that bad' have been living under a rock, performance-wise.
    How are the costs different from anything else? Are UGR builds a value or something?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    There's a lot to love about the S65, but you're deluding yourself if you think the S65 is going to 'show' the N54 anything other than it's group of owners being a bunch of suckers that can't even do their own oil or spark plug changes.
    It doesn't need to show the N54 anything as it is and always will be way ahead of it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    EDIT: What I'm worried about is the S55 coming along and ending the aftermarket for the S65.
    Did the N54 end the aftermarket for the S54?

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    ^^^ Good point on the billet block lol

    http://gtr.alphaperformance.com/alph...rmance-package

    The takeaway I get from this? The S65 has much better heads than the VR38

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    The takeaway I get from this? The S65 has much better heads than the VR38
    One of the best reasons to boost it. Forced air goes a long way on it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You seriously think a stroker costs $25k?

    What do you think a crank, pistons, and rods is going to run you? If anyone is dumb enough to pay $25k they deserve to be paying Dinan's mortgage.
    To build? Hell no I don't think it costs $25k. Talk about hearing what you want to hear, sheesh. But that's what they're sold for. Name me one company that ISN'T offering stroker builds for that price.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It depends where you want to go. You can get an SC kit for $8k. Regardless, get an SC and you have 600 whp that is actually usable and reliable. No fuel pump nonsense, no turbo lag, no limp modes, it just works and MOVES.
    I bought mine for $4500 used. The point is, most of the SC kits out there getting sold are in the $12k range and most of the suckers are convinced that's a good price when it's about $5k in parts. I get that they have to cost more vs other platforms due to the intake manifold.

    600whp for $8k? Uh no. Current NEW kits will net you about ~470whp for $8k. To get into the 600whp category, you'll be running meth injection and a $15k supercharger kit (unless you build it up like I plan to). And reliable? Maybe. Lots of '08s having bearing problems exacerbated by superchargers' drag on the crank. And problems in this engine are truly catastrophic. In a 2jz or LS3, if you blow the motor, no biggie, you can rebuild it. If you blow the S65, you've probably hosed the block too; mandating a complete replacement.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    How are the costs different from anything else? Are UGR builds a value or something?
    You're really comparing UGR builds to M3 builds? Take a break from the M3 zone and check out other aftermarkets. If you really want to cry, go take a look at the Coyote aftermarket Click here to enlarge


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It doesn't need to show the N54 anything as it is and always will be way ahead of it.
    'Always' is a big word. Most of the aftermarket companies for the S65 will try and move onto the S55. When the aftermarket options dry up on the S65, parts are only going to get more expensive. Both markets are kind of in their infancy, but the N54 market appeals to a different crowd than the S65 does (generally speaking). The N5X crowd will still be around when the S55 M3 comes out; will the S65 crowd?


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Did the N54 end the aftermarket for the S54?
    Pretty silly question and unrelated to the S65 -> S55 argument considering each motor was targeted at completely different markets. It is also worth mentioning that the S54 platform wasn't locked down like the S65 was from the get go. The MSS54? DME is pretty much completely open source now and has been for some time. The S65? It probably never will be. It's not a complicated DME either, it's not even a DI motor.

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