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    450 whp xdrive unrealistic?

    As I live in New England and am in need of a daily driver im entertaining the thought of a 6 speed 335i xdrive. Now, that being said im curious if anyone has made 450 + whp with an xdrive and if so what all is involved while keeping it drive able on a daily basis. Any answers would be greatly appreciated.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by turbodan Click here to enlarge
    As I live in New England and am in need of a daily driver im entertaining the thought of a 6 speed 335i xdrive. Now, that being said im curious if anyone has made 450 + whp with an xdrive and if so what all is involved while keeping it drive able on a daily basis. Any answers would be greatly appreciated.
    I can take you for a ride in one if you want to see what it's like. PM me.
    Click here to enlarge
    Everyone has a photographic memory, some just don't have film.

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    Hybrid twins with some octane you'll make 450 awhp for days.
    E88 N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Motiv HTA 3586r Tial .82AR/Motiv Port Fuel/BMR 3.5" Exhaust/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/ST Coilovers/M3 FCA + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/M3 FSB/AA Strutbrace/DINAN Camber Plates/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/VAC Hubs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance
    F30 335 X-Drive EBII....PPK otherwise Stock
    Click here to enlarge

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    Would I have to go all meth crazy? Or would a upgraded set of turbos a good tune and some other bolt on's get me there?
    i hate askin like this but I searched as much as I could and could find very little x drive specific stuff. Seems like the rwd gets all the love.

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    Not a ton of 400+awhp N54s running around compared to rwd, but it can be done no problem.

    Hybrid twins + FBO + E60. Meth would be nice, but you can get the IAT comp tables to shut up and you'll be OK in-cylinder. But meth would be nice Click here to enlarge
    E88 N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Motiv HTA 3586r Tial .82AR/Motiv Port Fuel/BMR 3.5" Exhaust/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/ST Coilovers/M3 FCA + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/M3 FSB/AA Strutbrace/DINAN Camber Plates/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/VAC Hubs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance
    F30 335 X-Drive EBII....PPK otherwise Stock
    Click here to enlarge

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    Should've mentioned im a bit ignorant on the abbriviations....

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by turbodan Click here to enlarge
    Should've mentioned im a bit ignorant on the abbriviations....
    Intercooler, Downpipes, Intake=FBO. With hybrid turbos and the fuel (inline or in tank low pressure) that's all you'd need to make the numbers.
    E88 N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Motiv HTA 3586r Tial .82AR/Motiv Port Fuel/BMR 3.5" Exhaust/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/ST Coilovers/M3 FCA + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/M3 FSB/AA Strutbrace/DINAN Camber Plates/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/VAC Hubs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance
    F30 335 X-Drive EBII....PPK otherwise Stock
    Click here to enlarge

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    It can be done farily easily. I'm FBO+meth on stock turbos and made 408awhp/483awtq on a very low reading mustang dyno. That was running the BMS race backend flash and Map 7 and I wasn't even hitting target boost. For comparison, a 335i with hybrid turbos FBO made only 390whp on the same dyno. He was running what he said was a conservative pump gas only map but still I expected him to be over 400. I was definitely pleasantly surprised with what my car made
    Click here to enlarge < Click picture for photoshoot
    E90 335i xDrive 6spd, Nav, Prem, Cold Weather, & Sports package - Msport Conversion
    More Pictures: Build Thread /// Shop I use: Aci Dynamix 408AWHP/ 483AWTQ Uncorrected Mustang Dyno

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by turbodan Click here to enlarge
    i hate askin like this but I searched as much as I could and could find very little x drive specific stuff. Seems like the rwd gets all the love.
    Hit up @UsualSuspect or @BrenM3 -- I' guessing he'll take you for a spin in Bren's 335xi (it's a 6AT), which is probably putting down 400 WHP+ on pump & well over 450 on straight E85 with just bolt-ons (Catless DPs, Intercooler, Intake, Custom Flash Software, Low Pressure Fueling Upgrade). Bren tunes out of Mass & has access to two separate AWD dynos, so he'll def be able to set you up.

    IF want a reliable 450 WHP on pump gas (no meth or turbo destructive boost curve), it'll take RB/Vargas Stage 2/ASR Turbos (which are currently for sale on this forum). The nice thing, that same setup has 500 WHP potential.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    Here's dyno videos of 3 separate Xi's Bren has taken over 400 WHP





    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    I guess the whole thing turnin me off to meth is having to keep it filled or blowin somethin up if i forget. Which on a daily driver is totally expectable.
    I would have no prob upgrading turbos and such as i do all my own work and have been a tech (non bmw) for 12 years.
    Just lookin for tips so i dont waste cash on pointless or poorly chosen mods

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by turbodan Click here to enlarge
    Just lookin for tips so i dont waste cash on pointless or poorly chosen mods
    Fair enough -- Parts I'd recommend:
    1. BMS DCI
    2. Any Catless DPs
    3. Helix/COBB Stepped Intercooler (Best IAT Reduction vs. Pressure Drop)
    4. COBB AP & Custom ProTune
    5. Upgraded Charge Pipe + Blow Off Valve or Diverter Valves
    6. ASR Turbos or Vargas Stage 2s
    7. Walbro Inline Fuel Pump Upgrade



    IF you want to juice every single HP out of the car, you could add a catback exhaust on there. But for $1k+, I can't justify the 5-10 WHP you'd gain.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    Gotcha. Also e85 is kinda out as the closest station to me is 50 miles away. Lol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by turbodan Click here to enlarge
    I guess the whole thing turnin me off to meth is having to keep it filled or blowin somethin up if i forget. Which on a daily driver is totally expectable.
    I would have no prob upgrading turbos and such as i do all my own work and have been a tech (non bmw) for 12 years.
    Just lookin for tips so i dont waste cash on pointless or poorly chosen mods
    I completely know what you mean and agree with you about the meth. In fact I don't daily drive my car injecting meth. I daily drive my car in map 1 which probably makes low 3's for whp which is a very conservative tune. Anytime I want the added power of meth I just use the steering wheel to switch to map 3 or 7 if I have e85 in the tank.

    Here's my dyno if you want to see it:
    Click here to enlarge < Click picture for photoshoot
    E90 335i xDrive 6spd, Nav, Prem, Cold Weather, & Sports package - Msport Conversion
    More Pictures: Build Thread /// Shop I use: Aci Dynamix 408AWHP/ 483AWTQ Uncorrected Mustang Dyno

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by psmith95 Click here to enlarge
    I completely know what you mean and agree with you about the meth. In fact I don't daily drive my car injecting meth. I daily drive my car in map 1 which probably makes low 3's for whp which is a very conservative tune. Anytime I want the added power of meth I just use the steering wheel to switch to map 3 or 7 if I have e85 in the tank.

    Here's my dyno if you want to see it:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDtGUIeGqyw
    This is why the jb4 + flash is such a nice combo, its truly "the best of both"
    Click here to enlarge
    997.1 tt
    Kline 200cell exhaust
    997.2/GT2RS IC's
    Cobb E85 custom stage3 tune by Mitch
    ID1000 injectors
    Sachs stage 2.5 clutch

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Fair enough -- Parts I'd recommend:
    1. BMS DCI
    2. Any Catless DPs
    3. Helix/COBB Stepped Intercooler (Best IAT Reduction vs. Pressure Drop)
    4. COBB AP & Custom ProTune
    5. Upgraded Charge Pipe + Blow Off Valve or Diverter Valves
    6. ASR Turbos or Vargas Stage 2s
    7. Walbro Inline Fuel Pump Upgrade



    IF you want to juice every single HP out of the car, you could add a catback exhaust on there. But for $1k+, I can't justify the 5-10 WHP you'd gain.
    Is there a need for (5) and (7)? They don't contribute any power, don't they?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigHoncho Click here to enlarge
    Is there a need for (5) and (7)? They don't contribute any power, don't they?
    but they allow you to make more power. stock charge pipe has cracked under higher boost levels and the fuel pump upgrade allows you to run higher amounts of e85 mixtures where the stock lpfp would fall in pressure.
    2008 e92 335i: JB4 G5 ISO/BMS back end flash, fbo, e85, inlets, Rb turbos, level 10 valve body + converter, water/methanol.....and a lot more....

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    I would not touch the stock charge pipe or dump valves unless they start leaking, I ran 19psi for a long time without any issues on stock parts.
    Click here to enlarge
    997.1 tt
    Kline 200cell exhaust
    997.2/GT2RS IC's
    Cobb E85 custom stage3 tune by Mitch
    ID1000 injectors
    Sachs stage 2.5 clutch

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    I tell everyone to get a metal charge pipe before they increase the boost no matter what. It's not worth the risks for 1-200 bucks seriously. Diverters you could gamble with because it's not as crucial if they fail (which usually starts as a slow leak).

    450whp cannot be done on stock turbos on an AWD car. I don't think it's ever been done, and if it has it's not anywhere close to a tune you are going to be driving every day with. I'd say realistic dynojet numbers for a DD tune on an ethanol mix is high 3's low 4's, without maxing your boost or timing.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    450whp cannot be done on stock turbos on an AWD car. I don't think it's ever been done, and if it has it's not anywhere close to a tune you are going to be driving every day with. I'd say realistic dynojet numbers for a DD tune on an ethanol mix is high 3's low 4's, without maxing your boost or timing.
    Why is there a difference? You mean the drivetrain and the loses? But the turbos itself an the engine is the same, so numbers at the flywhleel should be the same?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigHoncho Click here to enlarge
    Why is there a difference? You mean the drivetrain and the loses? But the turbos itself an the engine is the same, so numbers at the flywhleel should be the same?
    At the flywheel it is the same, yes. But the way the AWD's put the power down is significantly less efficient than a RWD car (which is expected).

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BigHoncho Click here to enlarge
    Why is there a difference? You mean the drivetrain and the loses? But the turbos itself an the engine is the same, so numbers at the flywhleel should be the same?
    The stock turbos arent going to move 450whp worth of air. Period. If you'relooking for that either go hybrid turbos(450 legit WHP) or look for a high reading dyno(not really 450whp) lol
    Click here to enlarge
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    Where does/did this 450whp number come from?

    The short answer is no unless you want to spend a GOOD chunk of change.

    For a DD just run 93 FBO, should be high 3s or if you are lucky low 4s whp at least. If you want more run meth and hit 430 if you are lucky.

    For a daily do you really want to put in upgraded stock from turbos and run them aggressively you can hit 450? They will not last extremely long.
    Last edited by Torgus; 12-03-2013 at 09:44 AM.
    E92 Bren Tune / E90 PTF Tune / E91 Stockish and slow AF

    Got Boost?

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Where does/did this 450whp number come from?

    The short answer is no unless you want to spend a GOOD chunk of change.

    For a DD just run 93 FBO, should be high 3s or if you are lucky low 4s whp at least. If you want more run meth and hit 430 if you are lucky.

    For a daily do you really want to put in upgraded stock from turbos and run them aggressively you can hit 450? They will not last extremely long.
    You could push stockers as hard as you wanted, 21psi tapering to 17 with 15 degrees…it’s just not happening, particularly with the drivetrain loss of AWD.

    But hybrid turbos that’s easy work. With the right octane you’d clear that hurdle with a pretty modest tune.
    E88 N54 Alpinweiss/Coral Red/Motiv HTA 3586r Tial .82AR/Motiv Port Fuel/BMR 3.5" Exhaust/ER CP/Synapse/VRSF FMIC/Rob Beck PCV Valve + Cap/ST Coilovers/M3 FCA + Tension Rods/M3 Subframe Bushings/M3 FSB/AA Strutbrace/DINAN Camber Plates/Apex ARC-8/Project Kics/VAC Hubs/Rogue Transmission Mounts/Alpina TCU Flash/Icarbon/Kerscher/BMW Performance
    F30 335 X-Drive EBII....PPK otherwise Stock
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 135pats Click here to enlarge
    You could push stockers as hard as you wanted, 21psi tapering to 17 with 15 degrees…it’s just not happening, particularly with the drivetrain loss of AWD.

    But hybrid turbos that’s easy work. With the right octane you’d clear that hurdle with a pretty modest tune.
    fbo stock turbos on an xi should be able to hit high 300s as I said no? low 400s with E85 blend right?
    E92 Bren Tune / E90 PTF Tune / E91 Stockish and slow AF

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