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Thread: Batch2 progress

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    Batch2 progress - Logging / Fuel system update

    Just a little snippet of the things we are doing over here...Click here to enlarge

    That was from an OTS map at 12 psi, we start tuning tonight...Click here to enlarge

    Fuel System update:

    We also basically completely removed the stock LPFP fuel system from the fueling loop, we are running the walbro 455 intank, across to the drivers tank which has the stock regulator completely removed, that feeds a custom surge tank fitted with a bosch 044 inline pump sitting inside the surge tank for cooling and lowered sound levels, this feeds to a real aftermarket regulator, which is boost dependent and adds 1 psi of pressure for every psi of boost, this is regulated by a return line back to the surge tank, basically turning it into a return style system. From the surge tank forward, and the returns are Aeroquip -6 push loc hose rated at over 500 PSI. So far the system seems to be working flawlessly. We will see how it does once we get some real HP asking for fuel.

    Is this needed for stock frames? Not at all, but we are in the works of building a motor and this will be needed for 800+ WHP. So we just like to do it once.
    Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 10-02-2013 at 05:46 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge

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    Wow, looks great, very interesting stuff. Wish I could snoop around your shop/get in the way/try to bribe you with pizza/beer.

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    What is a safe shaft speed for the turbos? Any estimates on xx g/s of airflow = xx whp? Is it roughly 1.1g/s = 1whp? Just going by this tune is running 10.5psi up top and is probably making 330whp? Correct me if I am guessing wrong here.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mj6234 Click here to enlarge
    What is a safe shaft speed for the turbos? Any estimates on xx g/s of airflow = xx whp? Is it roughly 1.1g/s = 1whp? Just going by this tune is running 10.5psi up top and is probably making 330whp? Correct me if I am guessing wrong here.
    Thr maf calibration is off right now, you cant really tell much from that right now, its maxing out at 5 volts pretty early. As far as safe shaft speed, not sure, but for comparison, most garrett see about 140-160K at full boost, were seeing that at 11 psi. I think we are gong to see close to 200K

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    so this is a batch 2 car installed and running? any pics of the completed turbos? I'm getting anxious lol
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    so this is a batch 2 car installed and running? any pics of the completed turbos? I'm getting anxious lol
    Posted pics in the last update. Car is up and running, and running fine. We are supposed to be tuning right now, but I got to the test track and my AP went haywire on me, would not connect to my computer and was reading all crazy, Dzenno had to go to bed so Im back at the shop playing with it now, reinstalling software, firmware, etc. No rest for the wicked.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Posted pics in the last update. Car is up and running, and running fine. We are supposed to be tuning right now, but I got to the test track and my AP went haywire on me, would not connect to my computer and was reading all crazy, Dzenno had to go to bed so Im back at the shop playing with it now, reinstalling software, firmware, etc. No rest for the wicked.
    Haven't seen completed pics, I'll have to check out the thread. But badass you're up and running now, damn tech issues, that sucks.

    hope you get it figured out tonight, no fun to put in hours and late nights and still not be ready to go.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Haven't seen completed pics, I'll have to check out the thread. But badass you're up and running now, damn tech issues, that sucks.

    hope you get it figured out tonight, no fun to put in hours and late nights and still not be ready to go.
    Honestly have been working on this car for like 2 weeks straight including the weekends, trying to keep the shop functioning at a good pace while my head is under this thing all day, my employees are like, so how much longer you gonna be working on that car? I see the light at the end of the tunnel, I pray!

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    Are we going to see 100% E85 on the dyno?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by blisstik Click here to enlarge
    Are we going to see 100% E85 on the dyno?
    If I ever get this pos off the lift and on the dyno thats the plan. More problems today, cobb still wont read right, etc etc. Supposed to dyno tonight, haven't even started tuning yet. Beyond annoyed with this car right now.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    If I ever get this pos off the lift and on the dyno thats the plan. More problems today, cobb still wont read right, etc etc. Supposed to dyno tonight, haven't even started tuning yet. Beyond annoyed with this car right now.
    Could it be caused by wedge reflashing the car to a different Rom?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmw335iguy Click here to enlarge
    Could it be caused by wedge reflashing the car to a different Rom?
    It was working fine after the flash, got to the test track yesterday, it started acting up and still hasnt calmed down yet. Other things are acting up too. We are just going to start tuning and see what happens

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    We are just going to start tuning and see what happens
    i like your style
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    I was wondering if anyone would try a surge tank. Those things are really useful for autocross and on cars that the bucket gets starved just long enough to deprive your engine of fuel. Mustangs were prone to that in the mid/late 90's. Also it's just an easy and great idea since you can run the LPFP at much lower pressure and get some crazy flow to the tank if you need to.

    Where do you have the stock pressure sensor, before the surge tank? Or after? If you are using the factory fuel pump wiring and left the LP sensor on the HPFP inlet it will cut PWM to the pump wiring if it exceeds target, although from the sounds of it I'd guess you ditched the stock wiring too haha Click here to enlarge

    The data is very exciting!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    I was wondering if anyone would try a surge tank. Those things are really useful for autocross and on cars that the bucket gets starved just long enough to deprive your engine of fuel. Mustangs were prone to that in the mid/late 90's. Also it's just an easy and great idea since you can run the LPFP at much lower pressure and get some crazy flow to the tank if you need to.

    Where do you have the stock pressure sensor, before the surge tank? Or after? If you are using the factory fuel pump wiring and left the LP sensor on the HPFP inlet it will cut PWM to the pump wiring if it exceeds target, although from the sounds of it I'd guess you ditched the stock wiring too haha Click here to enlarge

    The data is very exciting!
    I went with a surge tank mostly because it made it very easy to run the return without having to run a bulkhead back into the tank, I can just run it to the surge, as far as wiring, I ran the walbro intank off the stock wiring and left the fuel sensor in place before the hpfp, I ran a 40 amp relay to the 044 with 10 gauge hot wire direct from the battery and a 12V switched hot to trigger it so its out of the stock wiring loop, if the sensor sees higher than it should it will reduce pwm to the intank pump reducing pressure but the 044 is pulling from the full surge so it shouldn't be an issue, if it becomes one I will just take the intake pump and run it off the same relay as the inline. We will know more once we start tuning. Dzenno had an emergency tonight so our tuning did not happen. Looks like we will try to tune it on the dyno tomorrow morning. We always like to tune on the street first, but we will do what we have to. I hope we can get the car running well enough to go to SS. Im not going to bring it if we cant get the tuning where I want it. 2 hours on the dyno is not much time with all these changes, but we will see.

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    Update:

    More problems with the car, me and Dzenno were experimenting with boost activated gates on this set of turbos just to see how they would do, and it looks like we went with too soft a spring. We can only get the car to make 14.5 lbs of boost, I pulled the hoses off the gates and did a pull and had to lift around 3500 cause it was already over 22 psi. Basically the spring is too soft so the solenoids can only do so much to keep them closed, it was a failed experiment and now I have to go back down there and swap them out for vacuum gates. This means, I will not be able to bring the car to shift sector as there is no way I can get it done and tune in time. The turbos are running flawlessly, we just tried to do too many things in too little time. It happens. Car will be fixed and back on the dyno next week. The numbers we did get were very promising though. 421 / 429 at 14.5 psi, and very low acn 91 timing, soon as we get the gates swapped, we will go at it again.

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    That's impressive at 14.5 psi on acn 91. I'm now officially interested.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SCGT Click here to enlarge
    That's impressive at 14.5 psi on acn 91. I'm now officially interested.
    Just to be clear, we had E85 in the tank, but we really only did like 3 pulls before we realized the boost issue was not going to be resolved via tuning. Dzenno always likes to start out with ACN 91 timing as its very very conservative and a safe place to start. That was on 14.5 psi and ACN 91 timing tables, with E85 in the tank.

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    @VargasTurboTech, can you give us some info from the dyno pulls or street tuning? Backpressure, egt, shaft speed?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Just to be clear, we had E85 in the tank, but we really only did like 3 pulls before we realized the boost issue was not going to be resolved via tuning. Dzenno always likes to start out with ACN 91 timing as its very very conservative and a safe place to start. That was on 14.5 psi and ACN 91 timing tables, with E85 in the tank.

    Thanks for the clarification. Still good stuff, my ACN91 timing is extremely low. There is a lot of boost and timing to move up from. This is exciting news.

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    We did have our VANOS sauce in there Click here to enlarge
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    I'm reading this and thinking how familiar this sounds LOL. I just started tuning mine yesterday and this morning my new fuel pressure regulator gauge took a crap, i think my FPR is going out and just now my throttle position sensor quit working. I've gotten 0 tuning done because I've had to fix all that other crap and try to work at the same time haha.

    Sorry to hear it won't be at SS but no reason to rush. It'll work itself out.

    Good luck![

    QUOTE=VargasTurboTech;502701]Honestly have been working on this car for like 2 weeks straight including the weekends, trying to keep the shop functioning at a good pace while my head is under this thing all day, my employees are like, so how much longer you gonna be working on that car? I see the light at the end of the tunnel, I pray![/QUOTE]
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    @VargasTurboTech, can you give us some info from the dyno pulls or street tuning? Backpressure, egt, shaft speed?
    Sure, Back pressure at those boost levels were about 1:1 which is extremely efficient, but that doesn't mean much, true peak back pressure is found peak boost and peak rpm, we will get there soon, EGT I didn't log as havent installed the second thermo couple yet, but on the gauge it was under 1600 degrees, shaft speed was about 160K. I have attached the AEM log, you can see at peak power 6300 it boost was at 14.5, we were having a hard time getting a handle on those gates, boost was jumping around a bit, keep in mind this was 5 real pulls on something we never tuned before. I also attached the graph. You can see how choppy it is, we will get it all figured out and have nice pretty dynos for you guys next week.

    Note: Run 5 is the one I pulled the hoses off the gates just to see if it was in fact the solenoids, car hit boost quickly and lifted at 3500 or so, which is why you see 437 tq and 301 hp, it managed to make 437 before I could lift.
    Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 10-04-2013 at 06:14 PM. Reason: Data log added

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    Thats pretty awesome @ 14psi.

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