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  1. #1
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No

    Logging results with Dinan Stage 2 (2013 550ix)

    Hi,


    I've had Dinan S2 on my 2013 550ix since it was new. I now have 2500 miles. I got a Bavarian Technic cable so I could do some logging and confirm it was performing to spec. My reflash was done at BMW Gallery in Norwood, MA, same place as Alextremo, so I figured I would get similar results.


    I've had modified cars for over a decade, but this is the first time I've logged with a PC, so I'm still figuring it out. This is also my first auto, and the kickdown is pissing me off, esp when I want it to stay in 3rd or 4th at 3000 RPM while mashing the throttle.


    The cliff notes are that I'm making less boost, 12.5 or so PSI, compared to 14+ for Alextremo. I seem to have more timing, about 15+ degrees vs 11. Not sure if the tune is a little different on the 2013 model? I've seen other users post that they are seeing ~10-11psi vs 8-9 stock. I think this was CTSoxFan? He dynoed 400+ WHP on a Mustang dyno. So, it's good that it appears to be more boost than stock, but why isn't it as much as Alextremo? Throttle is showing ~80%, since I have to avoid the kickdown to get a longer pull in one gear.


    I have no dyno yet, but I may do this at the shop that tuned my Evo. They also have a Mustang "heartbreaker". My only perf measurement has been the PocketDyno iphone app. I run consistent 4.4x seconds 0-60 in Sport+, manual mode, with brake torquing and letting the car shift near redline.


    Images are below. Regarding the BT software, I'm logging Ambient Pressure, Intake pressure, RPM, Throttle, timing, and speed. I dump the data to Excel and calculate boost as (intake pressure (in hPA) - ambient pressure (in hPA)) * 0.014503773773022. With refresh set to "fast", I'm getting 4 - 5 reading per second. There are two sets of intake manifold pressures, I guess for each bank? Not sure if it matters which one I use, I haven't experimented too much yet.


    Any thoughts or tips/feedback regarding the numbers or BT software?

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    Hi,

    Sorry, I couldn't post the graphs of the pulls since I'm new...

    Here is some of the raw data for now.

    Pull 1

    RPM Boost Throttle Timing Speed
    3810 9.1 80.8 12.75 75
    3993 9.3 80.9 13.5 79
    4179 9.5 80.9 15 83
    4388 9.8 80.9 15 87
    4590 10.2 81.05 15.38 91
    4800 10.6 80.46 15.75 95
    4995 11.1 80.9 16.5 99
    5206 11.5 80.93 16.5 103
    5400 11.6 80.99 16.88 107
    5585 11.2 80.9 16.88 110
    5744 11.0 81 16.88 114
    5901 11.6 81 15.75 117
    6051 11.9 81.05 15.38 120
    6239 12.4 49.15 5.25 123
    6295 15.4 12.68 22.5 123

    Pull 2

    RPM Boost Throttle Timing Speed
    4612 10.5 80.7 15.38 115
    4748 10.9 80.9 15.38 118
    4869 11.3 80.9 15.38 121
    5005 11.6 80.95 15.75 124
    5122 11.8 81 12.75 127
    5252 11.7 80.95 13.5 130
    5348 11.6 80.95 13.88 133
    5459 11.3 81.05 14.25 136
    5563 11.1 81.05 14.25 139
    5682 11.0 80.98 14.25 141
    5789 11.2 80.94 13.88 144
    5871 11.6 81.05 13.5 147
    5989 11.9 81 12.38 149
    6069 12.4 81.05 12 152
    6185 12.8 81.05 12.75 154
    6267 12.8 81.01 12.75 156

  3. #3
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    Since the tuning is load based its hard to look only at the boost pressure as it will fluctuate based on environmental factors, mainly intake air temperature. Can you log anything related to engine load requested versus actual engine load?
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

    Click here to enlarge

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    Hi,

    I did see some parameters regarding load, I can give that a whirl. Thank you for the feedback! It's fun to tinker with this stuff after all this time.

    I tried something different on the way home from work, logged while doing a 0-60 run. Interesting, now my boost hit 13.1/13.2 PSI boost (edit: now I see that the RPM were falling so it was during the shift), and this is in a lower gear with less load. I was definitely WOT, but throttle still shows 80. I thought it was a percent, but if so, I don't know how to get 100, lol.

    Interestingly, since it tracks the time I was able to calc my 0-100 KM/H at about 4.64 seconds, which I think would be just about spot on with the iPhone app time of 4.45 seconds 0-60 MPH....


    I'm closer to the boost I would expect, but the delivery is more gradual. Alextremo's dyno shows a more powerful initial hit. My car ramps up the power with RPM. Not sure if something isn't right with the tune, the tune changed for 2013, or maybe I have a boost leak or something...


    Any feedback or thoughts appreciated.


    It was 80+ degrees F, IAT climbed slightly during the run. There is a spike in the boost for a split second during the shift, but you can see the throttle is closed, not sure if that's bad or what... raw data below. Can't post the graphs yet.

    RPM Boost IAT Throttle Timing Speed
    2157 -0.2 42 40.37 17.25 0
    2396 1.1 42 43.37 16.5 5
    2394 2.5 42 48.6 15.75 13
    2665 5.0 42 73.66 10.88 20
    3240 9.2 42 70.38 10.13 28
    4069 9.3 41.3 77.85 12.75 37
    4912 9.8 41.3 80.64 14.63 45
    5760 11.0 41.3 80.97 14.25 52
    6382 11.8 41.3 80.85 16.13 57
    6118 13.2 42 77.37 -0.75 61
    5098 18.2 42 26.34 16.13 67
    5343 6.6 42.8 76.07 16.13 72
    5717 8.7 42.8 80.85 15.38 77
    6117 11.1 42.8 80.95 15.38 82
    6465 12.0 43.5 80.94 16.88 87
    6444 13.1 43.5 79.35 -15.37 89
    4857 19.2 44.3 20.96 14.25 92
    4835 8.2 44.3 65.6 13.88 96
    5046 7.4 44.3 79.85 13.5 100
    5254 10.0 44.3 81.05 13.5 104
    5451 11.7 45 18.77 13.5 106
    5421 9.7 45 10.06 27.38 106

  5. #5
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    80 should actually equal 100% throttle, N54 is the same way. Not sure why it isn't scaled 0-100 lol. Boost will spike during the shift because the MAP sensor is located in front of the throttle plates, as it closes it will cause a momentary spike in boost pressure. I would be very interested to view requested load vs actual load.

    BTW, once you convert your boost pressure to psi, save the file to csv and you can use @jpsimons datalog graphing website to view it. Makes analysis MUCH easier. _ http://www.datazap.me/

    For example, here is a BT log i plotted for another user here...
    http://www.datazap.me/u/lulzm3/isaac...lash-e30-log-1
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

    Click here to enlarge

  6. #6
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    Again, thank you sir, that other graphing site looks great. I'll update with the load parameters. If anyone has other N63 logs it would be great to compare. Click here to enlarge

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    Do you have the same exact mods as the other Dinan tuned cars? If you have a less restrictive exhaust, it might lower the boost reading but increase overall flow (i.e. more power).

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    All stock other than Dinan S2. Well, I did remove the secondary charcoal filters from both airboxes.

    I've been following the "Phantom Dinan" threads. Some guys have had it reinstalled and it seemed to have made a difference, implying something was wrong. I will follow up with my dealer and I'm currently waiting for any feedback from Dinan as well. The car is pretty good power-wise (needs some susp tuning though), if I could get a little more boost and more aggressive power band I would be very pleased with this car as a year round daily driver.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tom C Click here to enlarge
    Do you have the same exact mods as the other Dinan tuned cars? If you have a less restrictive exhaust, it might lower the boost reading but increase overall flow (i.e. more power).

  9. #9
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    Have you had the car on the dyno? My charts are floating around with a stock ix DS2. I dyno'd both n63 (X5 and 550ix) on a very conservative dyno at STM on back to back days.

    Better yet, have you had it to the track. That is the best way to see power increases ie. trap speed.

    Best 1/4 mile to date 12.47.

    I haven't driven either to the track lately as I have been toying more with the GTR.

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    Worth mentioning, I had the car installed with the DS2 new and it was 50hp/tq low from the initial dyno from the x5. I had the Dinan reinstalled and it had a comm error. Most likely never fully uploaded the first time. Completely different car after.

    This is was all done in a 3 day period and seat of the pants noticeable. The 550 will spin the tires from launch on the street.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by berkel Click here to enlarge
    All stock other than Dinan S2. Well, I did remove the secondary charcoal filters from both airboxes.

    I've been following the "Phantom Dinan" threads. Some guys have had it reinstalled and it seemed to have made a difference, implying something was wrong. I will follow up with my dealer and I'm currently waiting for any feedback from Dinan as well. The car is pretty good power-wise (needs some susp tuning though), if I could get a little more boost and more aggressive power band I would be very pleased with this car as a year round daily driver.

  11. #11
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    Hi,

    Thanks for the reply. I hadn't been back here to update with my findings. Have not dynoed yet, but will schedule with my local shop that has a Mustang dyno.

    Per some emails back and forth with Dinan, the original Dinan tune did make about 14 PSI of boost. Later, they were able to achieve the "same" power level with less boost. I speculate that they lowered the boost, but raised the timing, which is exactly what my logs show. The Dinan source also told me that each tune from Stage I through V makes incrementally more boost. I had seen a report from a Dinan Stage 2 owner who tried Stage 3 without installing an exhaust. He didn't like the way the car felt, so flashed back to Stage 2. However, I speculated that I could bump my car upto Stage 3 and see more boost.

    Soooooo, last week I had Dinan springs installed (make a nice difference) and also had my car flashed to Stage 3. I've only done a few logs with the updated flash, but lo and behold I'm now seeing 14+ PSI peak with slightly less timing. Before I had about 12.5 PSI of boost with 15 degrees of timing, now I have 14 PSI of boost with about 12.5 degrees of timing. Car feels better and stronger. The boost still tapers in, whereas looking at logs of the "old" tune on Alextremo's car, the boost seemed to hit harder in the lower RPMS. This is probably Dinan making the tune more conservative. My gut is that the tune isn't quite as powerful, but I do like where it is. I may add an exhaust next year, and maybe step upto stage 4 for a little more boost.

    I will also report back with dyno and hopefully eventually drag strip numbers (latter probably not until the Spring).

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    There really is a lack of solutions out in the marketplace for modding. I was hoping Cobb would have ha something out by now, but unfortunately not.

    The springs probably would make a great deal of improvement over the stock. That's really my only complaint is the body roll.

    I don't believe there were many gains north of 14psi with the turbos. From what I read the design is what is holding them back vs the S63.

    I spoke to Dinan when I got my car right as stage III came out and they did advise against it on a stock exhaust car. I don't think the marginal results would be worth it for running the exhaust.

    let me know how you do if you go to the track. Not many postings around here.

    an interesting note: I switched run flats off of the x5 and actually ran 2-3 tents slower consistently. Just switched back to the run flats.

    Good luck and drive safe.

    Best Regards,

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    Very surprised about your results with the run flats! Were these on the same wheels and in the same size? Checking specs, similar non RFT tires are generally 5 lbs lighter per corner, which could be significant considering it's both rotational and unsprung weight.

    Take care.

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    My thoughts exactly, with the swapping of the run flats. I have picked up 2mph in other cars, but for whatever reason and ran 6-8 times was the opposite in the X5.

    Don't know if I'll have it back to the track this year for a comparison switching back to RFTs.

    First set of OEM RFT didn't last 9,000 miles.

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    any 1/4 times ?

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    Hey,

    None yet. I would like to hit a drag strip next Spring, I'm assuming most are closed here in the Northeast? I had gone to Epping, NH many years ago. I'd like to go to an event rather than open day, since I don't want to spend hours waiting for a handful of runs.

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    Hmm looking at the small data subset above it appears you are very close to the OEM boost and timing levels? Are you sure the flash tune was installed?

    Email me and I can send you the BT cable parameters file set I've been using.

    On our Stage1 tuning we run around 12psi and 15 degrees advance, and on Stage1 around 15psi and 13 degrees advance.

    http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22748
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  18. #18
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Droptopp Click here to enlarge
    There really is a lack of solutions out in the marketplace for modding. I was hoping Cobb would have ha something out by now, but unfortunately not.

    The springs probably would make a great deal of improvement over the stock. That's really my only complaint is the body roll.

    I don't believe there were many gains north of 14psi with the turbos. From what I read the design is what is holding them back vs the S63.

    I spoke to Dinan when I got my car right as stage III came out and they did advise against it on a stock exhaust car. I don't think the marginal results would be worth it for running the exhaust.

    let me know how you do if you go to the track. Not many postings around here.

    an interesting note: I switched run flats off of the x5 and actually ran 2-3 tents slower consistently. Just switched back to the run flats.

    Good luck and drive safe.

    Best Regards,
    This is a very small market so I do not expect Cobb will get involved in it.

    On the N63 turbos we've seen good power gains for each addl psi up until around 17psi peak. But there are tricks to getting the DME to accept those higher boost levels and it's starting to look like Dinan is just unable to get over those hurdles with their flash tuning. We've had to develop a special piggyback based system just for the N63 to get past those limits. I believe Dinan switched to the low boost high timing approach because the DME runs less airflow and its easier to get around the DME nannies that way. It's basically the same approach we use with our Stage1 tune. And it's good for 30whp/tq over stock on pump gas. Not much more than that though.

    Getting this car on a dynojet will make it easy to directly compare. So I'd look for one of those. No point in dyno testing on a low reading or off brand dyno. The data will be meaningless.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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