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Thread: Vargas Stage 1 BETA - Early Dynos

              
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    Vargas Stage 1 BETA - Early Dynos

    Hey guys, here are some dynos from Vargas Stage 1 turbos as installed on my car. Details on these turbos can be provided by Tony. The reason it took this long to get these to you guys is primarily to do with the way the actuators were installed on these units. Tony can explain in more detail but the way I understood it it has to had to do with the way clips that secure the actuator in place were installed. This causes low RPM and WOT onset boost control to be next to impossible to control properly as the actuator doesn't have smooth movement in that area until it gets moving. Sort of gets stuck then goes. I literally had to run not even 10% wgdc during spool up and in the transition to get the turbos to spool to 26psi but given WGDC can't just magically drop boost instantly as it reaches target it causes boost overshoot and huge torque humps, which can be fun to drive at times but certainly can be dangerous at others.

    Given these were already on the car I tried my best to still work with them instead of having them taken off to have them adjusted. This same actuator clip issue was on the first set of of stage 2s sent out but all those guys had the benefit of me trying them out before install and they have all been instructed by Tony to swap the clips to the other side of the actuator arm (lucky bastards hehe) Click here to enlarge

    In any case, here's the dynos. I do realize some will attribute gains to my cylinder head work. To be honest I'd love that to be the case. I've asked Tony to also put Stage 1s on another stock motor N54, which he'll be doing soon, and we'll go through tuning it on the same octane. So take them as you wish.

    Tuning wise boost down low would be random between 19psi at times all the way to 28psi due to the actuators. Past 5k rpm it'd settle down finally and you can see the curves level off nicely. At 6k rpm boost on this tune is hitting 18.5psi, 17psi at redline. This was done on our local Sunoco pump 94 octane and the Aquamist HFS-4 with two 1.0mm nozzles. Timing is about 16deg through midrange to 24 deg at redline that ramps up past 5500rpm Click here to enlarge

    I've tried a number of things with them including low boost, much higher boost to redline. They could hit 21psi at redline (which wasn't possible on some other turbos I've tested in the past). However, that boost actually caused power to start dropping off earlier towards redline. If anyone's interested in seeing those I can post those up as well as a study into why holding HIGH boost to redline can be counter productive when it comes to making power (even though there are no timing corrections/knock) and there's plenty of fuel/octane.

    Keep in mind that my own car was making 402whp/450wtq on this same pump gas octane and meth back in the day, all out, on the procede with about 19psi running about 17.5-18psi at peak power on STOCK turbos.

    There were two cars right before mine on the dyno. First was the new DCT record holder that we pro tuned at 450whp on race gas + meth and stock turbos and another 6MT car doing 428whp on map3 75 meth and an older version of a BMS flash (more available with a new more custom flash). I'm mentioning these just to give you an idea of where this dyno scores same day, same place, hour or two apart.

    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    Here's some additional dynos, with torque, different smoothings, correction factors, road speed, what have you..


    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    Not bad. Definitely interested in seeing on a more stock N54. A very good choice if you already need turbos.
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    Click here to enlarge



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    Sounds good, especially if you can carry a few more PSI into redline. AND like someone else said in another forum, the Vargas products will prob. be a lot more high boost friendly than the OEM stockers.


    Def in to see how these perform on a car where they're just swapped in, maybe see small gains on an unadjusted tune.
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    My bad on the clips D. I didn't realize I had swamped around them til you already had them installed. I was able to catch the other 2 sets, and all the rest have been correct. Its a good thing we are buddies..Click here to enlarge Thanks for getting this up, I will be putting a set of stage 1's on a stock N54 soon, and I shipped another set to a guy basically totally stock, I dont even think he has an intake. Hopefully we will get his results soon.
    Vargas Turbocharger Technologies
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
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    My bad on the clips D. I didn't realize I had swamped around them til you already had them installed. I was able to catch the other 2 sets, and all the rest have been correct. Its a good thing we are buddies..Click here to enlarge Thanks for getting this up, I will be putting a set of stage 1's on a stock N54 soon, and I shipped another set to a guy basically totally stock, I dont even think he has an intake. Hopefully we will get his results soon.
    Being totally stock isn't going to help anything will it since the DME is looking for a certain load? I'm assuming it would make the same power just a little easier. Either way does that guy already have a baseline run to compare to or will this just be seat of the pants review?
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, BMS DCI, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
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    Being totally stock isn't going to help anything will it since the DME is looking for a certain load? I'm assuming it would make the same power just a little easier. Either way does that guy already have a baseline run to compare to or will this just be seat of the pants review?
    He has been posting on the forum about it. I let him know being totally stock do not expect to see any gains, and explained to him what he needs. He went with stage 1's basically as an upgrade over stock as they are priced about the same. He doesn't have big power plans with the car but he did say he would dyno it. He also said he did NOT have a baseline. Nothing I can do about that.
    Vargas Turbocharger Technologies
    N55 World Record: 560WTQ, 11.4 ET / 123MPH
    N54 Stock Frame (100% E85) World Record: 645WHP / 654WTQ
    N54 (ACN 91 octane only) World Record, Stock Motor: 585WHP / 537WTQ
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge Click here to enlarge Website - Email


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    Impressive, thanks for getting these up. This is what I was hoping for in the event that I blow my stockers this week (or soon thereafter).
    JB4 G5 Iso Tune +Bimmerboost Backend l Vargas Stage 2+ Fully Upgraded Turbos l VRSF DP | VRSF FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump l BMS Trunk Meth l Nitrous Express Dry l Evolution Raceworks Charge Pipe with n20/meth bungs l Vargas HPFP Upgrade l Agency Power Exhaust with n55 mid pipes l Apex AERO-7 Lightweight Wheels l Toyo R888s

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    It would be nice to get somebody that has baselines on several tune levels to test a set of these out to get results. This would show if there would be gains for everybody or just the guys willing to up them to a higher level than what the stocks could do.
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, BMS DCI, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
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    He has been posting on the forum about it. I let him know being totally stock do not expect to see any gains, and explained to him what he needs. He went with stage 1's basically as an upgrade over stock as they are priced about the same. He doesn't have big power plans with the car but he did say he would dyno it. He also said he did NOT have a baseline. Nothing I can do about that.
    Sorry all, I don't have a baseline dyno for my car. I hadn't really intended to modify it, but since the turbos went out -- well, I upgraded. In any case, my car will be back together on Tuesday and I can drive it.

    The nearest chassis dyno to me is about 45 minutes away, and when I called, they were booked two weeks out.

    I travel to Nashville for work every month or so. Can anyone recommend a performance shop/dyno there?

    I think I'd also like to get a COBB AP, if I can get a good deal on it. If nothing else, I'd like to pull whatever logs are on my car pre-vtt turbos and share them here.

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    So glad Im local to Dzenno, seeing his car in action and speaking with him in person is truly a surreal experience. Congrats on the early dyno #s, hopefully you can solve the boost issues and we can see how far we can push these stg 1s Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigstupid Click here to enlarge
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    I think I'd also like to get a COBB AP, if I can get a good deal on it. If nothing else, I'd like to pull whatever logs are on my car pre-vtt turbos and share them here.
    Can't recommend a shop, but hit up the PROtuning Freaks guys for a COBB AP @dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks + @jhershorin
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigstupid Click here to enlarge
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    Sorry all, I don't have a baseline dyno for my car. I hadn't really intended to modify it, but since the turbos went out -- well, I upgraded. In any case, my car will be back together on Tuesday and I can drive it.

    The nearest chassis dyno to me is about 45 minutes away, and when I called, they were booked two weeks out.

    I travel to Nashville for work every month or so. Can anyone recommend a performance shop/dyno there?

    I think I'd also like to get a COBB AP, if I can get a good deal on it. If nothing else, I'd like to pull whatever logs are on my car pre-vtt turbos and share them here.
    Unless your going to do some mods and want a baseline anyway I'd say save your money. Without a tune or a baseline the numbers would only be beneficial to yourself for later use assuming you always go to that same dyno.
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, BMS DCI, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

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    Nice to see some data. I wish you had the stock head on the car but how much of a gain would you estimate these are worth vs. stock turbos?

    Also WTF with all the dyno crap lately? You're turning in to mini-Shiv. Click here to enlarge Just post STD smoothing 5 with a log showing boost, afr, timing, rpm, throttle, gear, and pwm. That is the standard!!
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    First was the new DCT record holder that we pro tuned at 450whp on race gas + meth
    And you have reached what with the stock DCT and how much does the stock DCT lag behind if anything?
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    cool, i might go stage 1's if budgeting becomes an issue, straight after my build... seem pretty solid for the low price Click here to enlarge.. always aiming for 2's though Click here to enlarge

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    Boost blip aside.......those are nice looking curves once the boost settles in.

    Looks like these stage 1's can handle more boost than the stockers, so I guess the turbine wheel design must be helping to reduce heat and backpressure on the exhaust side.

    Hard to believe you are running 16 degrees plus of timing Click here to enlarge on just 94 and meth.

    That much timing must be helping tremendously towards generating more power. Usually don't see timing that high unless E85 is in the mix so that is really impressive and attractive to me since I can't get the stuff up here in Toronto.


    All in these appear to be a good alternative to stockers.

    In fact more like an upgrade.

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    Yeah, but keep in mind his headwork and lower CR is allowing him to run copious amounts of timing too. It has to be a relative comparison to the reader.

    Good numbers. Dz, do you think it's "safe" for the average stg 1 owner to hold so much boost to 6k with just minimal turbine machining on the stg 1s?

    Just throwing it out there, but if someone wants to buy my 500km old stockers, I can buy some stg 1s and have about a dozen dyno pulls for comparison.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Serps Click here to enlarge
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    So glad Im local to Dzenno, seeing his car in action and speaking with him in person is truly a surreal experience. Congrats on the early dyno #s, hopefully you can solve the boost issues and we can see how far we can push these stg 1s Click here to enlarge
    Thanks buddy appreciate it. This boost control stuff should be out of the way, just a matter of a 2 second clip swap seriously. Problem was they're on the car so I'd have to get Ivo to pull them down to fix it, just wasn't worth it to me at this time. I'm sure they'll be just fine once that is addressed. Stage 2s had the clips on the opposite side initially too but those guys had time to swap them and are running now without this boost control issue.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
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    Nice to see some data. I wish you had the stock head on the car but how much of a gain would you estimate these are worth vs. stock turbos?

    Also WTF with all the dyno crap lately? You're turning in to mini-Shiv. Click here to enlarge Just post STD smoothing 5 with a log showing boost, afr, timing, rpm, throttle, gear, and pwm. That is the standard!!
    Hey, at least I'm not marketing my cylinder head upgrade without showing some real world experience with these. I'm looking forward to seeing the numbers from these on a stock motor with the same tune. That'll actually be a final telling story on my cylinder head setup/upgrade and how much gains it has compared to stock. Once that is confirmed I am thinking of pulling the head off and possibly talking to a couple shops to offer it as an upgrade to those interested in building up their top end. We'll see.

    In terms of dyno crap, I know what you mean, it is exactly that, CRAP...that's what the forums do to the good old way they were posted...someone posts STD smoothing 5, then another posts smoothing zero, then another says well UNCORRECTED is the way to go as that is what the car did right there and then on the dyno and corrected is cheating LOL So I decided to post them all Click here to enlarge The way you acted in that DCT thread, you've already turned into a Mr. Shiv Senior lol stop pooping on records and good tuning, get your own and we'll continue competing hehe

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DCAFS Click here to enlarge
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    Boost blip aside.......those are nice looking curves once the boost settles in.

    Looks like these stage 1's can handle more boost than the stockers, so I guess the turbine wheel design must be helping to reduce heat and backpressure on the exhaust side.
    Hard to believe you are running 16 degrees plus of timing Click here to enlarge on just 94 and meth.

    That much timing must be helping tremendously towards generating more power. Usually don't see timing that high unless E85 is in the mix so that is really impressive and attractive to me since I can't get the stuff up here in Toronto.

    All in these appear to be a good alternative to stockers.

    In fact more like an upgrade.
    In terms of handling more boost they certainly can hit higher boost targets. Longevity is something that comes with time and beating. I've beat on these quite a bit, even with the boost issue making them boost through the roof. They're not smoking yet is all I can say but they've seen about 3500km so far on the car. Although, on my car that 3500km doesn't go lightly at all, quite the opposite.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
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    Yeah, but keep in mind his headwork and lower CR is allowing him to run copious amounts of timing too. It has to be a relative comparison to the reader.

    Good numbers. Dz, do you think it's "safe" for the average stg 1 owner to hold so much boost to 6k with just minimal turbine machining on the stg 1s?

    Just throwing it out there, but if someone wants to buy my 500km old stockers, I can buy some stg 1s and have about a dozen dyno pulls for comparison.
    Correct. I'm really curious to see these on a stock motor. In terms of boost vs. longevity it is really hard to say as that sort of stuff comes with time and tons of beating in order to prove that something stands up to it well. I certainly wouldn't push them harder boost wise than what I described in the first post above as you end up losing power on the top end. The car feels really strong with 17psi to redline, much stronger than 21psi at redline which I've also tried on the street and dynoed. Added boost, although you can hit it, does NOTHING to power. In fact, you end up LOSING quite a bit of power. Just overspins them, creates more backpressure and heat and eventually makes at least the seals go prematurely. Past 5700-6k rpm on stock frame turbos less boost is more Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 05-07-2013 at 08:18 AM.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    In terms of dyno crap, I know what you mean, it is exactly that, CRAP...that's what the forums do to the good old way they were posted...someone posts STD smoothing 5, then another posts smoothing zero, then another says well UNCORRECTED is the way to go as that is what the car did right there and then on the dyno and corrected is cheating LOL So I decided to post them all Click here to enlarge The way you acted in that DCT thread, you've already turned into a Mr. Shiv Senior lol stop pooping on records and good tuning, get your own and we'll continue competing hehe
    Look no further than your signature. You have apparently set a "DCT dyno record" (there are DCTs running RB turbos making a lot more power? Maybe this is the stock turbo DCT record? Why are we keeping track of "records" by transmission type anyway? lol) and then list that as 450rw which was a smoothing 0 number. WTF? Also none of your dyno charts have datalogs to go with them.

    Again, STD corrected numbers, smoothing 5, with a log. If you don't want to post a log then you should not be posting the dyno IMHO. And if do 5th gear pulls like you did with the DCT that is fine but it should be clearly labeled on the dynochart.
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    how about pulling that N20 sensor so you dont hit pressure north of what 99% of those would see? its funny seeing close to peak hp at 4000 RPM. diesel motors are jealous. Click here to enlarge

    edit - typo

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
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    Look no further than your signature. You have apparently set a "DCT dyno record" (there are DCTs running RB turbos making a lot more power? Maybe this is the stock turbo DCT record? Why are we keeping track of "records" by transmission type anyway? lol) and then list that as 450rw which was a smoothing 0 number. WTF? Also none of your dyno charts have datalogs to go with them.

    Again, STD corrected numbers, smoothing 5, with a log. If you don't want to post a log then you should not be posting the dyno IMHO. And if do 5th gear pulls like you did with the DCT that is fine but it should be clearly labeled on the dynochart.
    You're really butt hurt it seems. That's incredible.

    In my signature I actually do have "Stock Turbos" next to the number. Yes, there may very well be RBs running around with more power than that. You're slipping these days...

    I didn't post JUST smoothing 0 with a certain correction, I posted all dynos I had in both STD and UNCORRECTED and both smoothing 5 and zero as well as road speed and engine speed...take it easy maybe and get your own work done your way?

    This is now the second thread in two days you're going after me...keep that in mind Shivo
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 05-07-2013 at 11:44 AM.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    You're really butt hurt it seems. That's incredible.

    In my signature I actually do have "Stock Turbos" next to the number. Yes, there may very well be RBs running around with more power than that. You're slipping these days...

    I didn't post JUST smoothing 0 with a certain correction, I posted all dynos I had in both STD and UNCORRECTED and both smoothing 5 and zero as well as road speed and engine speed...take it easy maybe and get your own work done your way?

    This is now the second thread in two days you're going after me...keep that in mind Shivo
    All the rest of the charts posted are just a cluster$#@! of irrelevant information. Instead of making the same chart 5 ways, you can post it the 1 way that matters, and devote the saved minutes to posting up the log that corresponds to the chart. For example in this post is dutycycle 50%? 100%? Is this a very aggressive tune? A mild one? Without a log there is no way to quantify the dyno data posted.
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    Dude what is up with these forums the last 2 weeks or so, everyone just attacking everyone. Maybe its because its finally starting to mature who knows. But come on guys, were all pretty much trying to do the same things as vendors, lets all show each other respect.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    All the rest of the charts posted are just a cluster$#@! of irrelevant information. Instead of making the same chart 5 ways, you can post it the 1 way that matters, and devote the saved minutes to posting up the log that corresponds to the chart. For example in this post is dutycycle 50%? 100%? Is this a very aggressive tune? A mild one? Without a log there is no way to quantify the dyno data posted.
    Really? How so? So now more data is bad? What would you like to know from my logs that is SO crucial to you as a tuner? Why does duty cycle from my logs matter to "you"? You're going on a witch hunt here for some reason...why?

    As I already mentioned, and some others alluded to, my car is "different" as the cylinder head had work done to it. They're not representative of gains on the stock car at the moment as I don't know how much the cylinder head itself provides in terms of gains until someone else puts these on a bone stock motor and retunes with whatever tune they choose to use. I've asked Tony to do this and it sounds like he will.

    Lastly, the tune on my car doesn't apply to ANY N54 out there. I certainly don't plan on running 16-24deg of timing on a stock N54. I thought I made that very obvious in the very first post. The cylinder head and the thicker gasket have altered the operating environment in what seems to be favourable which is a good thing for me putting the money/time into building the head but it may be bad in terms of my car showing dynos of Stage 1s on an N54. Again, this is why they should be dynoed on a stock N54. You're talking WGDCs too. Given you're a seasoned N54 tinkerer you should know that WGDCs don't mean much on turbos where they weren't adjusted to OEM specs. Given these were set wrong the WGDCs are lower than you'd expect to see on stock turbos for the same boost pressure levels.

    You should stop pooping on my threads honestly..i may start coming into yours with some "relevant" information
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