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Thread: Quick question on BMS OCC

              
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    Quick question on BMS OCC

    I've recently cleaned my intake valves after 25K miles. Cylinders 1, 3 and 4 were not bad but 2, 5 and 6 were pretty gunky. Does anyone have any experience with the BMS OCC installed for around 25K miles after cleaning the valves to see if it prevented gunky valves?

    Does running a meth kit really work as far as cleaner valves is concerned?
    Click here to enlarge
    Engine: MOTIV 750 / MOTIV Port Injection / Fuel-It! Stage 3 LPFP / Helix FMIC / ER CP + TiaL BOV
    Tuning: JB4 MAC_11 / MHD BMS Backend / Split Second AIC1-V6H
    Suspension: Bilstein PSS9 / Full M3 Suspension / Quaife LSD / Defiv Lockdown / Megan Toe Arms
    Wheels/Tires: Forgestar F14 19x8.5F +34 / 19x10R +38 / Michelin PSS

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    Well my OCC catches quite a bit of oil so I would say its defo worth having.
    Im interested to hear if running meth helps clean the valves.
    For what its worth the RB PCV is supposed to do a similar job as the OCC but for when you are not under boost conditions. I dont have one but I get the feeling I should!
    Mods: Cobb v3, Aquamist hfs-4, BMS DCI, AR Design DP's, ETS FMIC, ETS Charge Pipe, HKS SSQV BOV, BMS CDV, BMS OCC, BMS Clutch Stop & ptf twin disc clutch.

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    Thanks!

    I've read about the RB PCV on another thread. I was under the assumption that its for RB turbos only. When was the last time you had your valves cleaned and did you have your BMS OCC right after cleaning of the valves? I'm interested in how the valves look in that specific situation.
    Click here to enlarge
    Engine: MOTIV 750 / MOTIV Port Injection / Fuel-It! Stage 3 LPFP / Helix FMIC / ER CP + TiaL BOV
    Tuning: JB4 MAC_11 / MHD BMS Backend / Split Second AIC1-V6H
    Suspension: Bilstein PSS9 / Full M3 Suspension / Quaife LSD / Defiv Lockdown / Megan Toe Arms
    Wheels/Tires: Forgestar F14 19x8.5F +34 / 19x10R +38 / Michelin PSS

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by blisstik Click here to enlarge
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    Thanks!

    I've read about the RB PCV on another thread. I was under the assumption that its for RB turbos only. When was the last time you had your valves cleaned and did you have your BMS OCC right after cleaning of the valves? I'm interested in how the valves look in that specific situation.
    Not cleaned valves yet got second hand very low mileage car have had BMS occ since I got it only just hit 26k on 08 car. Thinking about getting valves cleaned soon. All I know is the occ has most certainly saved a lot of oil from going in there
    Mods: Cobb v3, Aquamist hfs-4, BMS DCI, AR Design DP's, ETS FMIC, ETS Charge Pipe, HKS SSQV BOV, BMS CDV, BMS OCC, BMS Clutch Stop & ptf twin disc clutch.

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    The OCC was not designed to prevent your intake valves from getting clogged, it was designed to catch free floating oil vapors that were being circulated in the intake tract and clogging your FMIC (lowering efficiency), Charge Pipe and/or DVs/BOVs and Meth Bungs -- Just read Terry's description on the website: http://www.burgertuning.com/BMW_335_oil_catch_can.html. Any of those things being clogged will lower your efficiency and cause damage (clogged DV/BOV doesn't release boost, no good; just like if you're running Meth & the meth never gets injected).

    The RB PCV is designed as a significant upgrade over the OEM PCV valve which is made of plastic. Because we've all cranked up the boost, the OEM plastic piece has trouble holding boost & will begin to leak oil into the intake tract. This is probably more effective at preventing oil vapors from entering the intake tract. Unfortunately, even with the RB PCV valve you'll still get carbon build up.

    While the RB PCV + BMS OCC will not prevent carbon build up, they'll def "fight off" build up & lengthen service time between mandatory intake valve cleanings.

    ***I've had the BMS OCC installed since I went FBO, even before I got my ProTune. I'm about to hit 50k and when I get my intake valves cleaned, I'm going to see how much oil it collected. Chances are I'll also get my RB PCV installed at the same time.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    What is the RB PCV? Is it the straight pipe off the FMIC couplers? It would be nice to extend cleaning valves to 40K miles.
    Click here to enlarge
    Engine: MOTIV 750 / MOTIV Port Injection / Fuel-It! Stage 3 LPFP / Helix FMIC / ER CP + TiaL BOV
    Tuning: JB4 MAC_11 / MHD BMS Backend / Split Second AIC1-V6H
    Suspension: Bilstein PSS9 / Full M3 Suspension / Quaife LSD / Defiv Lockdown / Megan Toe Arms
    Wheels/Tires: Forgestar F14 19x8.5F +34 / 19x10R +38 / Michelin PSS

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by blisstik Click here to enlarge
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    What is the RB PCV? Is it the straight pipe off the FMIC couplers? It would be nice to extend cleaning valves to 40K miles.
    The Rob Beck Positive Crankcase Valve, here's a pic of mine
    Click here to enlarge

    And here's a pic of where the OEM PCV is located (basically next to the OEM PCV hose, which is what the BMS OCC hoses connect to)
    Click here to enlarge

    Here's the thread with additional details about the RB PCV, Install Details, etc: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15382
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    Having the OCC in place greatly reduces valve gunk build up.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    You'd have to be nuts not to do both Click here to enlarge Stock turbos, whatever.
    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

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    Some facts and clarifications on the Oil Catch Cans (OCCs) and PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) on this car:

    1) OCC only collects oil when BOOSTING. This is referred to as oil blowby. When you're off boost (99% of the time) OCC doesn't do/collect anything and sees no oil vapours.

    2) Some cars have more blowby than others and will have more oil going under boost to the OCC than others. This depends highly on the state of your oil rings but also the OEM PCV valve which easily leaks.

    3) PCV valve is supposed to be OPEN (allow flow) when intake manifold is under VACUUM (cruising around, off boost). This causes oil vapours to be vacuumed through it. They end up travelling through the passages in the valve cover and come down through openings in the cylinder head and get deposited/burned on the intake valves. OEM PCV valve has no issues with this mode of operation.

    4) PCV valve is supposed to be CLOSED (prevent flow) when intake manifold is under BOOST (going WOT and boosting). Otherwise its a boost leak at the intake manifold. On top of that this boost is pressurizing the crankcase as the valve cover is now allowing a path for air from the turbos to travel up the cylinder head passages into the valve cover past the PCV valve and down into the crankcase. This can/does cause multiple issues including affecting turbo oil drain operation possibly impacting turbo longevity. THIS is what the RB PCV valve fixes. It seals up properly and allows for leak free operation under boost. It prevents pressurization of the crankcase, prevents slight boost leaks at the intake manifold and helps the turbo drains work without impact.

    5) OEM PCV valves are very weak. I could blow air right threw it just blowing into it. How much boost could my lungs produce to make the OEM PCV valve leak? According to google search a measly 2psi makes it leak.

    In summary, upgraded PCV valve is highly recommended. Oil Catch Can is a good idea although not as necessary for overall system health BUT I'd still recommend it to keep the intake tract oil free/clean. If you don't get one your FMIC effectively becomes an Oil Catch Can. Not bad, but not great either.
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 02-21-2013 at 11:41 PM.
    Click here to enlarge

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    is there a link for the pcv valve i have the bms occ but not the valve
    ground control coilovers/wavetrac lsd/ full m3 suspension/delrin bushings/ megan racing toe and camber arms/bmw oem performance carbon fiber front lip and rear deck spoiler/m3 strut brace/ecs SS brakelines/CPE dci's, charge pipe, catless dp, fmic/bms OCC/tuningtechfs custom tune/defiv diff lockdownkit,rbpcv valve.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TRES Click here to enlarge
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    is there a link for the pcv valve i have the bms occ but not the valve
    Description, Details + the DIY are all in this post. The ordering instructions are at the bottom: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showpo...93&postcount=1
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    thanks



    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
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    Description, Details + the DIY are all in this post. The ordering instructions are at the bottom: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showpo...93&postcount=1
    ground control coilovers/wavetrac lsd/ full m3 suspension/delrin bushings/ megan racing toe and camber arms/bmw oem performance carbon fiber front lip and rear deck spoiler/m3 strut brace/ecs SS brakelines/CPE dci's, charge pipe, catless dp, fmic/bms OCC/tuningtechfs custom tune/defiv diff lockdownkit,rbpcv valve.

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    I installed both this past weekend. Both parts are must have if you're FBO or even just tuned. The BMS style OCC should have come with the N54 motor.
    Click here to enlarge
    '07 E90 335i AW 6MT Sport & Comfort Pkgs
    MODS: |COBB AP | CP-e | ER | Forge | DCI | KW V1 | M3 Sways | BBS CH | M3 Body Parts| MTech | CF Wrap Trim

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdaddycane Click here to enlarge
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    The BMS style OCC should have come with the N54 motor.
    No Shot -- That would require BMW owners to actually open their hood & actively maintain their cars Click here to enlarge. Already have the BMS OCC, but I'm getting the RB PCV installed next week, def know it's gonna be a higher quality part than the OEM PCV
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    When I had the BMS OCC on my car, my car would produce a white/blue smoke cloud on the first decceleration event while the car was cold (when secondary cats are still cold). I had it on there for about a month and thought my turbo's seals were leaking. I have catless downpipes with the stock exhaust. So I had my downpipes pulled and the turbos were bone dry. I really thought it was the turbos, but now I knew it was something else, and this began about a week after the OCC install.

    I then took off the BMS OCC to find oil inside the very front of the can inlet hose, but everything else was bone dry including the end of the inlet hose and I caught no oil at all. I ordered a new check valve and hose from BMW, took off the OCC and went back to the stock PCV system. No more smoke at all anymore, never. I am going to be leaving my PCV system stock for the remainder of my time with this car, because I can deal with emptying out my FMIC every 8-12 months and cleaning my valves (which you will have to do anyways, OCC just delays it a little bit)

    This is not a bash against BMS by any means. I love BMS products and Terry himself is a great guy (I have a tune,intake, and downpipes from them). I just think OCC's on an N54 arn't the smartest thing to have regardless of brand. This is my personal experience with an OCC, nothing else.

    Honestly looking at how simple the CCV system is on a 6.0 powerstroke and other motors (fairly familiar with it, just a hose that we put breathers on the end of it, and run it under the truck) I think BMW's PCV system is fairly sophisticated, and these multiple valves and such are for a reason, with calculated pressures and all that crazy engineering info. Just my two cents Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
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    I then took off the BMS OCC to find oil inside the very front of the can inlet hose, but everything else was bone dry including the end of the inlet hose and I caught no oil at all.
    It sounds like you're not experiencing oil blow through as bad as most people. How many miles was your OCC installed?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
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    I think BMW's PCV system is fairly sophisticated, and these multiple valves and such are for a reason, with calculated pressures and all that crazy engineering info. Just my two cents Click here to enlarge
    The N54 PCV is garbage, which is why Rob Beck released his upgrade. The OEM N54 PCV is so bad at holding pressure, that you can blow through the seal. The N55 PCV is definitely much more capable of holding boost & preventing oil blow through.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
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    It sounds like you're not experiencing oil blow through as bad as most people. How many miles was your OCC installed?


    The N54 PCV is garbage, which is why Rob Beck released his upgrade. The OEM N54 PCV is so bad at holding pressure, that you can blow through the seal. The N55 PCV is definitely much more capable of holding boost & preventing oil blow through.
    Probably 1,000 miles I would say. My car has 21,700 miles right now.

    I agree the PCV system has issues. I feel like this may be due to increased pressures however with increased boost, and we wouldn't be seeing this on stock cars. I could be wrong but I don't really know what to say to be honest. All I know is that my smoke stopped luckily. RB's valves look top notch Click here to enlarge

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    I have no issues with my occ or oil problems. But I'm glad you're being honest with your experience keeps the forum honest. I'm going to install the RB pcv
    Valve just as cheap insurance



    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
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    Probably 1,000 miles I would say. My car has 21,700 miles right now.

    I agree the PCV system has issues. I feel like this may be due to increased pressures however with increased boost, and we wouldn't be seeing this on stock cars. I could be wrong but I don't really know what to say to be honest. All I know is that my smoke stopped luckily. RB's valves look top notch Click here to enlarge
    ground control coilovers/wavetrac lsd/ full m3 suspension/delrin bushings/ megan racing toe and camber arms/bmw oem performance carbon fiber front lip and rear deck spoiler/m3 strut brace/ecs SS brakelines/CPE dci's, charge pipe, catless dp, fmic/bms OCC/tuningtechfs custom tune/defiv diff lockdownkit,rbpcv valve.

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    I have the RB PCV valve, stock boost, and BMS OCC. I have driven 2500 miles since installing the catch can exactly one month ago. I estimate a pretty even split between highway and city driving. I just checked it and there is only a thin film of oil inside the catch can. I can only conclude the quart of oil I have added to the crankcase in that time has either bypassed the rings or entered the engine while the intake manifold is in vacuum, not boost. Once the weather breaks, I plan on installing another catch can to collect the oil flowing into the head while the intake manifold is under vacuum. My car is due for the valve cover gasket anyway, so while the valve cover is off, I plan on modifying it with fittings for an external catch can.

    I also walnut blasted the intake ports about 10,000 miles ago so maybe I'll pull off the manifold and check for carbon buildup at that time.

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    Awesome. Please do report back with photos!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
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    I have the RB PCV valve, stock boost, and BMS OCC. I have driven 2500 miles since installing the catch can exactly one month ago. I estimate a pretty even split between highway and city driving. I just checked it and there is only a thin film of oil inside the catch can. I can only conclude the quart of oil I have added to the crankcase in that time has either bypassed the rings or entered the engine while the intake manifold is in vacuum, not boost. Once the weather breaks, I plan on installing another catch can to collect the oil flowing into the head while the intake manifold is under vacuum. My car is due for the valve cover gasket anyway, so while the valve cover is off, I plan on modifying it with fittings for an external catch can.

    I also walnut blasted the intake ports about 10,000 miles ago so maybe I'll pull off the manifold and check for carbon buildup at that time.
    Click here to enlarge
    Engine: MOTIV 750 / MOTIV Port Injection / Fuel-It! Stage 3 LPFP / Helix FMIC / ER CP + TiaL BOV
    Tuning: JB4 MAC_11 / MHD BMS Backend / Split Second AIC1-V6H
    Suspension: Bilstein PSS9 / Full M3 Suspension / Quaife LSD / Defiv Lockdown / Megan Toe Arms
    Wheels/Tires: Forgestar F14 19x8.5F +34 / 19x10R +38 / Michelin PSS

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    i checked my bms occ yesterday, i had it installed at 9k im now at 48k and the occ has just under the quarter mark of the can. waiting on my rb pcv valve.
    ground control coilovers/wavetrac lsd/ full m3 suspension/delrin bushings/ megan racing toe and camber arms/bmw oem performance carbon fiber front lip and rear deck spoiler/m3 strut brace/ecs SS brakelines/CPE dci's, charge pipe, catless dp, fmic/bms OCC/tuningtechfs custom tune/defiv diff lockdownkit,rbpcv valve.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
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    When I had the BMS OCC on my car, my car would produce a white/blue smoke cloud on the first decceleration event while the car was cold (when secondary cats are still cold). I had it on there for about a month and thought my turbo's seals were leaking. I have catless downpipes with the stock exhaust. So I had my downpipes pulled and the turbos were bone dry. I really thought it was the turbos, but now I knew it was something else, and this began about a week after the OCC install.
    You probably had some restriction like a kinked OCC line. Before we started suggesting trimming the engine cover I came across a car that had the same issue. His UBEND was folded over blocking the PCV which of course leads to smoking and bad times. He trimmed the cover and problem was solved. Our OCC is a straight shot and there is no way for it to cause any significant restriction compared to stock if properly installed. Overall though the OCC is just another piece of insurance. If you don't mind cleaning out the pipes and intake ports yearly it can be skipped on. But also keep in mind at higher boost levels oil entering combustion can also cause engine knock. Not a big deal at 14psi. At 20psi+ on RBs, bad times.

    I ran a breather for a few months and sold a few to testers. Did not work out very well. Tons of odor.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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