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Thread: Kleemann won't be the last, will we see more M156 superchargers now? ESS will be next?

              
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    Kleemann won't be the last, will we see more M156 superchargers now? ESS will be next?

    So I have been pondering this whole Kleemann releasing their own SC thing with what I know and whatever you think may have happened I believe this is a very interesting shift in German performance tuning.

    Why? Well, usually you see tunes trickle in from Europe. Someone will get the coding cracked over there and it will spread out by whatever means (usually by being stolen, stolen and copied) from Europe towards the US. In this instance, it is a US company that is the driving force in this market that being Weistec.

    In this instance, we are seeing the software go from West to East as in North America to Europe. A very interesting twist, isn't it?

    With Kleemann getting their hands on the software necessary to supercharge we may see ESS-Tuning enter the market now as well. They are another Scandinavian tuner who has been talking about their supposed C63 supercharger for years. Nothing to show for it though, not even a teaser pic, so they likely didn't have anything. Likely only a matter of time before they get their hands on the software.

    I'm going to make a prediction now that with the software spreading, unfortunate as it is, we are going to see more people attempt to enter the market.

    The deciding factor now will be the pricing and quality of the hardware.

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    Started looking into this more and yep, looks like the ESS setup will be fairly similar to the Kleemann kit, surprise, surprise:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Roman@ESS
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    We will be using the TVS blower similar to the one we currently use on the BMW N62 motor "pictured below" along with an air/water cooling system. This blower can produce massive amounts of HP and TQ.


    Click here to enlarge

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    ESS has had their N62 TVS supercharger way before Kleemann's M156 SC.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
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    ESS has had their N62 TVS supercharger way before Kleemann's M156 SC.
    Yes I know but they did not have anything for the M156.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    So I have been pondering this whole Kleemann releasing their own SC thing with what I know and whatever you think may have happened I believe this is a very interesting shift in German performance tuning.

    Why? Well, usually you see tunes trickle in from Europe. Someone will get the coding cracked over there and it will spread out by whatever means (usually by being stolen, stolen and copied) from Europe towards the US. In this instance, it is a US company that is the driving force in this market that being Weistec.

    In this instance, we are seeing the software go from West to East as in North America to Europe. A very interesting twist, isn't it?

    With Kleemann getting their hands on the software necessary to supercharge we may see ESS-Tuning enter the market now as well. They are another Scandinavian tuner who has been talking about their supposed C63 supercharger for years. Nothing to show for it though, not even a teaser pic, so they likely didn't have anything. Likely only a matter of time before they get their hands on the software.

    I'm going to make a prediction now that with the software spreading, unfortunate as it is, we are going to see more people attempt to enter the market.

    The deciding factor now will be the pricing and quality of the hardware.

    I think there are some inaccuracies to this Article. First of all, you might not know this, but Kleeman funded the first supercharger project for the M156 three years ago with one of thier own Employees. That Employee is Jesper Jensen and who is now the owner of Xtra supercharges. You can see that the Kleeman superchargers are somewhat similar to Xtra. They did not go with the product initially due to tuning issues and reliability. Since partnering with Weistec they figured out those issues and created thier own product.

    One more thing. There is no codes cracked from west to east like you state. That is absolutely false. Weistec are great tuners, but they did not do the code cracking themselves. Yes they have the base software, they can change some specifics to each car, but they absolutely did not conduct any cracking. Maybe they can chim in and tell you also. They have good connection from an excellent German tuner who is close to AMG. The same cracked codes are used by Xtra SC, GAD twin SC, and now Kleeman. Sorry but no base codes are cracked in the USA on a German BOSCHE ECU,

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Fast Lane Click here to enlarge
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    I think there are some inaccuracies to this Article.
    Not an article, just a post of my thoughts.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Fast Lane Click here to enlarge
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    First of all, you might not know this, but Kleeman funded the first supercharger project for the M156 three years ago with one of thier own Employees. That Employee is Jesper Jensen and who is now the owner of Xtra supercharges. You can see that the Kleeman superchargers are somewhat similar to Xtra. They did not go with the product initially due to tuning issues and reliability. Since partnering with Weistec they figured out those issues and created thier own product.
    The Xtra-Power guys are former Kleemann guys, yep. The Xtra-Power setup is used with a piggyback and not through DME flashing, important distinction. I also don't know if Xtra-Power is still solvent. I don't know if "funded" is necessarily accurate and the first successful supercharger setup for the M156 was Weistec's.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Fast Lane Click here to enlarge
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    One more thing. There is no codes cracked from west to east like you state. That is absolutely false. Weistec are great tuners, but they did not do the code cracking themselves. Yes they have the base software, they can change some specifics to each car, but they absolutely did not conduct any cracking.
    However you want to look at it Weistec had and has the software. Now that software went from West to East, exactly as stated.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Fast Lane Click here to enlarge
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    aybe they can chim in and tell you also.
    You think I don't talk to Weistec?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Fast Lane Click here to enlarge
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    They have good connection from an excellent German tuner who is close to AMG. The same cracked codes are used by Xtra SC, GAD twin SC, and now Kleeman. Sorry but no base codes are cracked in the USA on a German BOSCHE ECU,
    I agree it goes East to West so to speak with guys on the inside of the OEM's making this all happen. That said, Weistec worked on their own software at their own cost and with their own development time/money. They tweaked their software and now it would appear their development will be used as a shortcut for others.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    You think I don't talk to Weistec?
    Oh I'm sure you do. As much as I am sure they wouldn't disagree with anything I posted above.

    They did not crack any codes and they had help from Europe. Period!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Fast Lane Click here to enlarge
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    They did not crack any codes and they had help from Europe. Period!
    Who is saying they didn't? Everyone has to have some kind of help from Europe from someone who has a close relationship to the factory or else nothing would happen for anyone.

    That said, Weistec developed, tested, and programmed their own software for supercharging. What they did is now spreading out unless you can explain why only 1 system was working on the stock DME and it happened to be theirs?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Fast Lane Click here to enlarge
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    As much as I am sure they wouldn't disagree with anything I posted above.
    They might disagree with certain things. I certainly did and do.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Who is saying they didn't?
    You did. Your original post would mislead the readers thinking that Weistec cracked the codes and sent files to Europe. As if they figured out the ECU tuning for a SC M156 application. Listen, I love the Weistec SC. They have the best and most powerful application for the M156. Thir 3.0L SC puts Kleeman SC way behind. In fact Kleeman are light years behind them. Weistec are offering Ice tanks, catch cans, more powerful transmissions.

    Yes they made a hardware that has been proven to be the best. Although when it comes to tuning, please don't start saying files have been cracked and been sent from west to east. The files have been cracked and based from Europe and have been sent from East to West. Hardware is something else, you are talking about ECU tuning here, which Weistec did not "crack".

    I hope you don't take the wrong impression. I like Weistec and what they have done with the M156. They are still the best and will remain the best for this engine I'm terms of power and reliability. They are actually going to release further upgrades for this platform which will shock a lot of people including you :-)

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    I'm not sure where any of you get this information. It is honestly insulting to read this. We never had help from anyone when calibrating the ECU to work with our supercharger. I'm sorry but this absolutely 100% false. No company or person gave us any kind of tuning help to "crack" the code. Through years of OEM calibration and certification experience (why do you guys think we are the first to have a CARB approved product for the M156/159) and very hard work we were able to understand the logic behind the ME9.7 and create something that others never had the knowledge, patience, and understanding to do. These rumors are rediculous guys. Honestly just end it.

    Happy Holidays,

    Weistec Engineering

    World's First Supercharged M156 6.3L



    CONNECT WITH US
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Fast Lane Click here to enlarge
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    You did. Your original post would mislead the readers thinking that Weistec cracked the codes and sent files to Europe. As if they figured out the ECU tuning for a SC M156 application. Listen, I love the Weistec SC. They have the best and most powerful application for the M156. Thir 3.0L SC puts Kleeman SC way behind. In fact Kleeman are light years behind them. Weistec are offering Ice tanks, catch cans, more powerful transmissions.

    Yes they made a hardware that has been proven to be the best. Although when it comes to tuning, please don't start saying files have been cracked and been sent from west to east. The files have been cracked and based from Europe and have been sent from East to West. Hardware is something else, you are talking about ECU tuning here, which Weistec did not "crack".

    I hope you don't take the wrong impression. I like Weistec and what they have done with the M156. They are still the best and will remain the best for this engine I'm terms of power and reliability. They are actually going to release further upgrades for this platform which will shock a lot of people including you :-)
    Weistec just commented and directly told you that you are wrong. So much for that you doubt they would disagree part.

    They developed their own software. If "everyone else" had it don't you think "everyone else" would have superchargers for the motor on the stock ECU?

    So if what Weistec says is true what I stated is true about the software going from West to East this time around.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Weistec Click here to enlarge
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    I'm not sure where any of you get this information. It is honestly insulting to read this. We never had help from anyone when calibrating the ECU to work with our supercharger. I'm sorry but this absolutely 100% false. No company or person gave us any kind of tuning help to "crack" the code. Through years of OEM calibration and certification experience (why do you guys think we are the first to have a CARB approved product for the M156/159) and very hard work we were able to understand the logic behind the ME9.7 and create something that others never had the knowledge, patience, and understanding to do. These rumors are rediculous guys. Honestly just end it.

    Happy Holidays,

    Weistec Engineering
    What he is saying about rumor is his business or whatever but he clearly doesn't know what he is talking about.

    What is interesting here is now ESS is commenting more on their supercharger which will use a TVS series blower (which they already use on the N62 V8) like the Kleemann kit. I have a feeling your software is about to make several other kits possible now.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Weistec Click here to enlarge
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    I'm not sure where any of you get this information. It is honestly insulting to read this. We never had help from anyone when calibrating the ECU to work with our supercharger. I'm sorry but this absolutely 100% false. No company or person gave us any kind of tuning help to "crack" the code. Through years of OEM calibration and certification experience (why do you guys think we are the first to have a CARB approved product for the M156/159) and very hard work we were able to understand the logic behind the ME9.7 and create something that others never had the knowledge, patience, and understanding to do. These rumors are rediculous guys. Honestly just end it.

    Happy Holidays,

    Weistec Engineering
    I sincerely apologize to any harm I have caused you. The stuff I hear about your products is from someone who Is perhaps jealous of your work. I am sorry. Sticky, this the last time I spread these rumors. I apologize to you as well.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Fast Lane Click here to enlarge
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    I sincerely apologize to any harm I have caused you. The stuff I hear about your products is from someone who Is perhaps jealous of your work. I am sorry. Sticky, this the last time I spread these rumors. I apologize to you as well.
    It's ok, seems to be cleared up.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Fast Lane Click here to enlarge
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    I sincerely apologize to any harm I have caused you. The stuff I hear about your products is from someone who Is perhaps jealous of your work. I am sorry. Sticky, this the last time I spread these rumors. I apologize to you as well.
    So basically someone you know tells you something and you think it's the truth and don't do any research of your own. Great way to form an opinion...

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    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
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    So basically someone you know tells you something and you think it's the truth and don't do any research of your own. Great way to form an opinion...
    I agree. I'm a total idiot.

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    There is one more company working on M156/159 blower, they contacted me a few months ago and more or less offered me a free system for my C BS . I told them I was flattered but I am Weistec customer and asked them why they were even bothering with entering the M156 blower market this late in the game, his answer "we believe our name is the strongest in the industry" , I then asked, then why are you contacting me?

    Weistec is two plus years ahead of any other tuner on a FI M156 motor, not sure how these other tuners think they can close that gap??? I think most customers are going to do some research on these systems before they drop $15k or more for a system and when they do they are going to see hat not only is the Weistec he best and most powerful and dependable system its the overall best value. I cant wait to line up against one of these other systems lol.


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    ^yeah can't wait to fire up @SL55K SL55 Weistec tomorrow Click here to enlarge



    EURO 04 M3 Current Mods:GC DAs, Eibach Sways, PF RTAB's, RE RCAs, INTRAVEE II, Black Roundels, ///MFEST Badges, Depo's, Screen protector for NAV display, VCSL Bumper + Race Lip & CF Trunk & CF Rear Diffusor, DIETZ TV in Motion, SS= V1 Headers + catless pipes + X-Pipe + SS Sport Exhaust, Z8 Starter Button, Lamin-X, OEM CSL interior, OEM CSL Steering, OEM CSL Intake, OEM CSL Roof, MSS54HP + OEM CSL Tune, BBS CH's, LIGHTWERKZ, 355mm ST40 BBK, BW Oil Cooler....

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 0-60Motorsports Click here to enlarge
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    ^yeah can't wait to fire up @SL55K SL55 Weistec tomorrow Click here to enlarge
    you went with the new Weistec blower for your SL55? Sick bro, that thing is going to be a rocket!


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
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    you went with the new Weistec blower for your SL55? Sick bro, that thing is going to be a rocket!
    JR its my cousins car:

    http://www.benzboost.com/showthread....ild-Journal%29



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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
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    Weistec is two plus years ahead of any other tuner on a FI M156 motor, not sure how these other tuners think they can close that gap???
    They won't close the gap. But Kleemann will take Weistec sales in Europe.

    This whole situation really angers me not just due to what happened but also due to people not understanding the ramifications.

    Kleemann had nothing... now they are piggybacking to try to revitalize their name.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
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    you went with the new Weistec blower for your SL55? Sick bro, that thing is going to be a rocket!
    Let's hope nobody takes the M113 Kompressor software now too...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    They won't close the gap. But Kleemann will take Weistec sales in Europe.

    This whole situation really angers me not just due to what happened but also due to people not understanding the ramifications.

    Kleemann had nothing... now they are piggybacking to try to revitalize their name.
    I d\honestly do not think they will take too much business. Go on Google and type in M156 supercharger, Weistec fills the first three pages of results, go on Youtube and type in M156 blower, mercedes blower or a half a dozen other key words and most of the results are Weistec, do a keyword search on this forum or any of the other big MB forums including AMG PL and type in Supercharger and Weistec pops up. Kleeman will get a few of the customers that are completely clueless or too dumb or too lazy to do any research. My guess is that the vast majority of customers that can afford to buy one of these vehicles is smart enough to do some research before pulling the trigger on a modification that is going to cost them $15-$20k. The vast majority of customers looking for performance that is above and beyond that of a stock AMG are going to research the hell out of things before they write that check. The biggest obstacle they new kids on the block are going to face is the question of reliability and Weistec has over two years of proven reliability and hundreds of units already out in the publics hands being used as daily drivers and beat on at the track on a regular basis. That is they type of publicity that money can not buy....its called reputation. Sure Kleeman has a good name in the industry but under this platform they have ZERO experience or reputation and this M156 powerplant being one of the most produced in the history of AMG they are going to be starting at a huge disadvantage. This is the equavilent of a football game in which one team (Kleeman) plays three quarters of the game never putting their defense on the field, the other team (Weistec) ran the score up so high that when Kleeman finally puts their defense on the field it does not matter how good they are(or are rumored to be), the game is already over becuase they are never going to make up the lost ground they lost to Wesitec in the first three quarters.

    If Kleeman was that good why were they beat to market by over two years by a start up????


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
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    There is one more company working on M156/159 blower,

    [...]

    his answer "we believe our name is the strongest in the industry"
    who who who ?

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