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Thread: N54 Carbon Fiber Driveshaft from the Driveshaft Shop (DSS)

              
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    N54 Carbon Fiber Driveshaft from the Driveshaft Shop (DSS)

    Two words we hear often, sometimes after catastrophic driveline damage:

    Wheel hop!

    While I've considered this phenomenon mostly fixed with my rear suspension changes it is still not entirely gone and it can still be catastrophic to drivetrain parts especially those that are non hardened OEM. Addressing wheel hop is tricky on this platform partially due to independent suspension and in part due to rubber OEM bushings/mounts that are made to make the car drive smooth from the factory. I won't discuss wheel hop in this thread as there's another one dedicated to it. What I want to let you guys know about is a new driveshaft option coming from the Driveshaft Shop (DSS).

    N54 community already has a great alternative to OEM rear axles with the DSS. I've had these on my car for the last 2 years, after snapping one of the OEM ones, and never looked back. The style of the axle and CV arrangement that DSS uses on the N54 rear axles has been tested to 6500lb-ft of torque which is pretty impressive.

    Next up is the driveshaft and they are now equipped to produce CF driveshafts for BMWs. In terms of how this differs from the OEM one and how it compares to steel/chromoly, aluminum here's what they have to say:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Driveshaft Shop
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    1. Steel or Chromoly tube will torsionally twist about 5-7 degrees

    2. Aluminum will torsionally twist about 20 degrees

    3. Carbon Fiber will Twist about 30 degrees

    What happens with the different material does not stop there, when the Steel/Chromoly comes back it does it like
    a spring with allot of force and power, The Aluminum also comes back quick. Not as quick as the steel but still has
    that spring effect. the carbon on the other hand comes back slower and over more time. This will allow the tube to
    take some of the harmful shock factor out of the drive train.
    And here's some of their thoughts on wheel hop:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Driveshaft Shop
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    i also read about wheel hop, we have been doing some work with the diameters of the axles bars. When a set of axles is the same diameter they both will twist up and release at the same rate. what happens on most cars is when they twist up and release, then do it again it causes the wheels to hop. what we have been doing it altering the shaft diameter of the axle bars so they twist and release at different rates. This allows one wheel to start to spin and will stop the hopping. This does not work on all cars but for most it has worked very well. i may try this for this platform.
    The current one is being built for the LARGE pumpkin housing fitting the 6MT N54s. They're also willing to make them for the M3 platform as well but will need measurements. If anyone is interested let them know. For the automatics I don't have the specs or the car for that so anyone with a 6AT transmission if you're interested give Frank@DSS a shout.

    Click here to enlarge


    EDIT: Updated with more pictures that may clarify some of the questions you guys had about the design of the N54 driveshaft:

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 11-18-2012 at 10:38 AM.


  2. #2
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    Awesome, any preliminary figures on weight savings?
    2007 BMW 335i 6MT / Alpine Weiss

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
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    Awesome, any preliminary figures on weight savings?
    No idea. Really not getting it for weight savings but for minimizing shock to drivetrain components. In case of breakage too though a CF driveshaft will just disintegrate and not go through your floor and catapult the car in the air.


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    Pretty unit. Good place to save some rotating mass too for those people who already have light wheels.

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    This is primarily for drag racing enthusiasts where you'd see the most wheel hop and drivetrain shock, correct?
    From all the things I've lost,
    I miss my mind the most!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
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    This is primarily for drag racing enthusiasts where you'd see the most wheel hop and drivetrain shock, correct?
    Primarily, yes, but if you launch on the street it can also happen very easily. Happened to my 2 nights ago.


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    Finally.
    pt6466 FFTEC 335i
    gtx3076r FFTEC Evo IX

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    Perfect.. Half shafts and now driveshaft. The future is looking bright
    - Proven Power Tampa built 6466 ST -
    - N54 6AT WR 711whp 637wtq-
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    This looks expensive. =(
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

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    The will be definite weight saving which should benefit acceleration - less rotational mass. Much like a LWFW without the marbles in a coffee can sound.

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    They can make this for any application right?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    They can make this for any application right?
    If DSS can't(I'm sure they can) then you could get one from several other drive line companies. CF driveshafts have been around for a while.

    Be cautioned however, CF driveshafts are EXTREMELY strong torsionally, but when it comes to impacts they are very weak. Which means wheel hop is a very dicey proposition. I'm not sure if the M3s have the same wheel hop problem we have.

    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
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    Be cautioned however, CF driveshafts are EXTREMELY strong torsionally, but when it comes to impacts they are very weak. Which means wheel hop is a very dicey proposition. I'm not sure if the M3s have the same wheel hop problem we have.
    Isn't this supposed to help eliminate wheel hop?

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    They definitely make a nice CF shaft, the one going into my drag car will be from DSS. Like someone said though they are strong in some ways and not so much in others and ive seen a few break easier than an aluminum one. It is MUCH safer though than any metal one.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
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    It is MUCH safer though than any metal one.
    Because if it twists it just goes to dust?

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    any guesstimates on a price?







    an arm and a legż
    - Proven Power Tampa built 6466 ST -
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    Really shouldn't be all that bad.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Really shouldn't be all that bad.

    maybe I'm still reminiscing over those 15K CF rims lol.
    - Proven Power Tampa built 6466 ST -
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Isn't this supposed to help eliminate wheel hop?
    No, wheel hop comes from the suspension(diff layout plays a roll too.)

    Carbon fiber driveshafts are great for high horsepower/torque applications becuase they can handle torsional(twisting) forces VERY well and are EXTREMELY lightweight. However when you wheel hop it has a hammering effect from the rapid loading and unloading of the torque and the CF just can't cope.

    Think of it like this: if you just set weight on a cinderblock it can support a huge amount. However, if you smack it with a small hammer it will break apart very easily.

    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ak335i Click here to enlarge
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    any guesstimates on a price?







    an arm and a legż
    For other applications i've seen pricing between $1K-$3K

    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
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    No, wheel hop comes from the suspension(diff layout plays a roll too.)

    Carbon fiber driveshafts are great for high horsepower/torque applications becuase they can handle torsional(twisting) forces VERY well and are EXTREMELY lightweight. However when you wheel hop it has a hammering effect from the rapid loading and unloading of the torque and the CF just can't cope.

    Think of it like this: if you just set weight on a cinderblock it can support a huge amount. However, if you smack it with a small hammer it will break apart very easily.
    Gotcha but if you eliminate the wheelhop issues wouldn't you want this then?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
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    For other applications i've seen pricing between $1K-$3K
    my mind was telling me n1200

    I hope I'm close lol
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Gotcha but if you eliminate the wheelhop issues wouldn't you want this then?
    Ohh yeah, I've seen CF driveshafts rated for 1,200+hp that weigh ~3lbs

    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Because if it twists it just goes to dust?
    Pretty much, it splinters into small harmless pieces.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
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    For other applications i've seen pricing between $1K-$3K
    3K is pretty damn high cant imagine why it would be anywhere near that.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ak335i Click here to enlarge
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    my mind was telling me n1200

    I hope I'm close lol
    I would think your dead on with that price.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
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    Ohh yeah, I've seen CF driveshafts rated for 1,200+hp that weigh ~3lbs
    Would love to know what application that was for, the joints weigh more than that.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
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    No, wheel hop comes from the suspension(diff layout plays a roll too.)

    Carbon fiber driveshafts are great for high horsepower/torque applications becuase they can handle torsional(twisting) forces VERY well and are EXTREMELY lightweight. However when you wheel hop it has a hammering effect from the rapid loading and unloading of the torque and the CF just can't cope.

    Think of it like this: if you just set weight on a cinderblock it can support a huge amount. However, if you smack it with a small hammer it will break apart very easily.
    this.

    If you are having wheel hop, chances are good that you break your cf driveshaft easier than aluminum driveshaft. Vic Taza broke his cf driveshaft because of the very same reason when he did a burnout with slick tires, something that hadn't happened to the stock aluminum driveshaft.

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