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Thread: Strange misfire...

              
  1. #1
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    Exclamation Strange misfire...

    Can you please tell me WTF is happening with my car...? :S
    I ALWAYS get misfire on cylinder 4, 5 and 6 at the same time @ around 6300 rpm. Before that the car is always running very strong...
    I've changed plugs and coils, but the fault is still there... Every time!
    Coding of the injectors are ok.

    I think it has something to do with the front lambda sensor on bank 2.
    Take a look at the end of the log and you'll see that bank 2 AFR is climbing straight up to the sky... And that's when I get the misfires on cylinder 4, 5 and 6.
    No lambda related codes, only misfire.

    ...or could it be a bad HPFP that is unable to deliver 100% flow at high rpm's?

    I've also logged Fuel Pressure.
    Tell me what you think.


    The log is with a CM10 nozzle and a 50/50 mix of 93 oct and e85.

    Click here to enlarge
    GT-R R35 ​coming up...

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    are you still banned on shivpost?
    Did you see what codes you get? only missfire? (by the way do you have a spare coil :-)
    07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina B3 Flash

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    I'm not sure that an O2 sensor on the fritz would cause that sort of symptom. Do you have INPA to check the lambda adaptation values? That would be an easy way to check.

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    Omg another one bites the dust...i was the first with those phantom misfires and Procede remember my misfire saga? Search up this and other forum..bunch of ppl have reported the same issues in the last few days and they cant fix them..all i'm going to say is good luck man and i really hope you figure it out

    I bet its your cylinder 5 and the other two just get thrown off once the dme cuts fuel due to the misfire...the lean spike is a result of what the dme does when it senses the misfire, its not the cause of the misfire


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    Omg another one bites the dust...i was the first with those phantom misfires and Procede remember my misfire saga? Search up this and other forum..bunch of ppl have reported the same issues in the last few days and they cant fix them..all i'm going to say is good luck man and i really hope you figure it out
    The thing is that my car has been working perfect for a long time with this setup.
    This problem has accured now and I havent touched anything, so Im quite sure the problem is caused by some bad hardware.
    GT-R R35 ​coming up...

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    I'm not saying its your tune. I'm saying good luck fixing that crap now that its happening

    Ask hotrod, @JamesM3M5, another guy on e90 recently, all have it or dealt with it...i got pm-ed at least 4-5 times by various ppl in the past about it too..in the end most either sold the car or got a new motor/head it seems..some have been advised to push their car off a cliff too (u know who u are Click here to enlarge)
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 09-14-2012 at 07:47 AM.


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm not saying its your tune. I'm saying good luck fixing that crap now that its happening

    Ask hotrod, @JamesM3M5 , another guy on e90 recently, all have it or dealt with it...i got pm-ed at least 4-5 times by various ppl in the past about it too..in the end most either sold the car or got a new motor/head it seems
    ...or just disables the misfire detection... Click here to enlarge
    GT-R R35 ​coming up...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Big Tom Click here to enlarge
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    ...or just disables the misfire detection... Click here to enlarge
    Ding ding ding ding Click here to enlarge now that i have the head off and see the gasket there is nothing that should've been causing that on the mechanical end of it either...all thats left is some resonance that the crank sensor picks up and dme cuts fuel out and that's how it starts

    Have you had plugs or injectors replaced some time before that started happening?
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 09-14-2012 at 07:55 AM.


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Have you had plugs or injectors replaced some time before that started happening?
    I've only replaced the plugs after the misfire started, but without any results.

    Edit... And I've tried new coils, without any results...
    Last edited by Big Tom; 09-14-2012 at 08:58 AM.
    GT-R R35 ​coming up...

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    Another MSD80 type issue it seems. Anyone have these phantom misfirings or what-not with an MSD81 car?

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    Does it misfire on map 0?
    [02/07 E92 335i 6MT] - Under Construction
    [
    01/07 E92 335i 6MT] - Cobb S2+ PTF-protune | Stett CAI | ETS 5" FMIC | AR DP | AE Exhaust - Gone

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    It could be one flaky injector taking down the whole bank, or bad pre-cat O2 sensor. The lambda pegs lean due to the presence of unburned oxygen during the misfire events, so that's a symptom, not a cause. What do the old plugs look like in 4-5-6? All the same? Any plug look sooty or significantly different? High RPM misfire points to bad coil or some other electrical issue.

    All new coils or just 3? New or good used? Possible low voltage output from the alternator or a bad connection from the alternator to the junction point on the right front shock tower? Does your car live outside? If so, even light corrosion on some of those grounds and power connections can cause issues. Low voltage also means weaker spark.

    Also try clearing adaptations and log again?
    James Muskopf
    RRT Racing
    2007 E92 335i/6MT Procede Rev3 w/PWM meth, otherwise stock
    E28 M5, R171 SLK320

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    @JamesM3M5 have you seen my thread on this bs?


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    IMO if coils, plugs, valve cleaning and injectors don't fix it, it's a toasted DME. Wasn't there someone who fixed his issues by replacing a transistor on his DME by himself?

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    BT get that thing working!




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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    IMO if coils, plugs, valve cleaning and injectors don't fix it, it's a toasted DME. Wasn't there someone who fixed his issues by replacing a transistor on his DME by himself?
    It might be but its an expensive thing to try for sure. Nothing would surprise me though when it comes to that bs issue

    Here's a funny thing they do on the S54 when a weird issue such as this happens, and Turner sells the required hardware (crank sensor adaptor).

    http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-20...52-engine.aspx

    Its a bit different in the N54 case as the N54 crank sensor is a hall effect type, not magnetic, so the same rules don't apply but it does go to show that things like this happen and don't necessarily mean coils/plugs/injectors/dme/electrical/ground/etc and that it can just be noise pickup.

    If you do further digging you'll also notice that on many E39 M5s they actually turn off misfire detection entirely after which the issue completely goes away and the car runs strong without any issues at all. No stumbling at high RPM, no torque dips on the dyno even at zero smoothing while prior to that the car would consistently misfire at the exact same RPM and the DME just cuts fuel to the misfiring bank (side effect, not the cause)

    Good luck solving it. If you don't and you get tired of looking for a fix either sell the car or try turning off misfire detection to see if your car is back to normal Click here to enlarge or push it off a cliff lol


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    I'm not saying its your tune. I'm saying good luck fixing that crap now that its happening

    Ask hotrod, @JamesM3M5 , another guy on e90 recently, all have it or dealt with it...i got pm-ed at least 4-5 times by various ppl in the past about it too..in the end most either sold the car or got a new motor/head it seems..some have been advised to push their car off a cliff too (u know who u are Click here to enlarge)
    My car started doing it too after I installed the RBs.... Turned out the injector isolator ring was missing allowing for a poor spray pattern and it was an easy fix. I bet that was Hotrod's problem too as the same dealership replaced his injectors. But, I digress, it's something different every time with these mystery misfires!

    Maxing out fuel trims will do it though. I've seen that trend in customer logs. Doesn't seem to be the case for BT though.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  18. #18
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
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    Maxing out fuel trims will do it though.
    Are you sure about that one? Can you reproduce it consistently?


  19. #19
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    Are you sure about that one? Can you reproduce it consistently?
    Sure. If you get the AFR up in to the 16:1 range an leaner at higher loads expect misfires.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  20. #20
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
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    Sure. If you get the AFR up in to the 16:1 range an leaner at higher loads expect misfires.
    Oh, that's not what I had in mind. I was thinking you noticed that when trims maxed out at safer AFRs that you encountered misfires which I haven't seen before.


  21. #21
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    Tom load up std stage 3 and no e85 and see what happens.

    I dont think people over at e90post are posting the whole story
    07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina B3 Flash

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    They're all running out of fuel basically. You need a back end flash to support the higher fuel demands of E85. No surprise there.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    SUBSCRIBING... I am running the same tune and have an on going issue with mis-fires in 4-5-6 (Bank 2)

    I have replaced the O2 and my injectors were all recalled about 20k miles ago to the newer part #'s. I have also received new Turbos 13k miles ago.

    I had high RPM misfires and idle mis-fires. I replaced my plugs and the High RPM misfires disappeared (20k miles on the plugs).

    Plug #6 looked all black on the tip, not the threads. I have ordered a new injector for cylinder 6 to see if that resolves the fouled plug issue. And hopefully resolves the 4-5-6 mis fire issue. Hoping that the possible bad #6 injector is throwing off the entire bank.

    Will keep you guys posted, ordered the injector from Tischer yesterday and just ordered my INPA compatible cable. Should have it installed some time late next week.

    And I have an MSD 80

    Here is a pic of my injectors from a previous thread.

    Click here to enlarge

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    DELETE PLEASE
    Last edited by joec500; 09-14-2012 at 01:58 PM. Reason: Double Post

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    Might want to check out the LP sensor as these are common issues. Just saying

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