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Thread: m275 in a w123

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    m275 in a w123

    Hey there!

    new to the forum, came for the knowledge about the m275 since i have a few questions Click here to enlarge

    the plan is to fit the v12 from hell in an old w123

    this is the car, an old car for grandpa Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge
    the engine witch supposedly has traveled about 50000km

    Click here to enlarge

    this is how far we are now, and the turbo a tad larger than what i am planing on.

    Manifolds:
    The enginecompartment is to narrow to fit the original manifolds+turbos.
    custombuild twinport t3 manifolds is the plan, with an adapter to run the t25 Mitsubishi TD04-19T we are currently planing on.
    the t3 manifolds if i one day would feel the need to go for beefier turbos.

    Chassi:
    getting some stiffer springs, hopefully maintaining the self-leveling part at the rear, nice to load the car up with people and still look deasent.

    Brakes:
    w126brakes in the front, vented 12" discs (locked the front tires 225/45r17) doing 120km/h on my other car, so they should work for what i plan to use the car for. aswell as brakeboosters (yes 2) from a gen2 w126, dual diaphragm stuff.

    seperated brakes front+rear.
    since i have a clutchpedal that i wont use, i had an idea to build two brakesystems, dual brakeboosters, dual pedals,
    left pedal = brakes at the rear
    middle pedal = brakes at the front
    metal hinge to lock the two pedals together for normal driving,
    removing the batterytray and getting a second brakebooster, reviering the hydraulics from the clutchpedal to the other side, and this way beeing able to do massive burnouts, aswell as drifting in the corners easily, (without the hideous hand-brake arm every drifter has)

    Enginemounts
    i am now looking for good enginemount-rubbers (or whatever they are called) preferably getting two or thee per side, reasonable soft to not transplant any engineshudders to the chassi, anyone got any suggestions?

    Driveline
    Cardanshaft from a w126/w116 v8, aswell as a 2.47LSD differential should be good, fits straight away
    am a bit worried about the driveshafts, but seeing that ive driven a stock w123 with om606 and 530whp and a lot more nm, i hope the shafts will survive, i suspect this forum is the wrong place for any suggestions regarding upgrades for this old piece of metal Click here to enlarge

    ECU
    Megasquirt should be able to work good for me, right?

    Gearbox
    sticking with the stock gearbox, custom gearbox controller and running that hopefully happy with shift-pedals behind the stearingwheel to begin with.


    Engineversions (important question)
    Was told that the engine is from a w220 that was made for the "ambassadors" in Germany, and thus, about 600kg heavier or something, this engine was supposed to have a different cam (AMG?), and different ECU, and delivering about 100hp extra over the 512 it normaly came with, anyone that can confirm this information?

    the engine looks to be in good condition, and the turbos looks like new, so the distance it has been driven doesnt sound to far of.


    any information or suggestions is highly appretiated,

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    WOW! This is an ambitious Project...Click here to enlarge

    Look here in this video, it is from a guy from Hungary who put an V12 M275 in an old S-Class W140 and burning some serious rubber Click here to enlarge: Maybe he can help you with your project.



    Here is very interesting link to the built of the car. It is in hungarian language, you can copy and put into Google translator. GOOD LUCK!

    http://totalcar.hu/tesztek/2014/06/1...es-benz_ko860/

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    thanks, and yes, quite ambitious Click here to enlarge
    As the person i am building with says, one should do what no one has done before,
    other w123s has been fitted with the w140 NA v12, but i have heard very little about the m275 and other cars with that engine other than the regular, the size+complexity is probably a factor.

    that w140 you linked was badass, althou, to knew for me Click here to enlarge
    looks like he kept the electronics to, the only thing giving my car away is supposed to be the dual exhaustpipes and the sound, if i could, i would go for 15" steelies with hubcaps Click here to enlarge

    ---
    first: get the engine i place,

    second: figure out how to make/get a standalone controller for the gearbox to work properly, (atleast with shiftpedals)
    and Megasquirt to control the engine properly...

    not going for crazy power, will be more than happy with the 600hp and 1000nm so far, i will probably have trouble getting the power down to the ground anyway, oldschool 2.47LSD isnt exactly helping that much Click here to enlarge

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    I have to say if you get that thing running in there you will surprise just about everyone on the road. Not sure if a sleeper is the goal but that is a hell of a sleeper.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    a sleeper is the plan Click here to enlarge ive always been facinated and unhealthy entertained by extreme power in something that looks somewhat old, slow and tired.

    like this a friend has, a om606 in a w123, 530whp and besides 17" wheels it looks completely "stock" untill the hood is lifted, or if someone takes a close look and get a glimpse of the intercooler below the bumper, or the 5" tailpipe,
    supposed to change the emblem to a 220D instead of that 200 (gasser) it has right now Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by swampmonkey Click here to enlarge
    om606
    What motor is this?

    Nice engine bay.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Om606 diesel sixcylinder, from the w210 chassi, 1997-1999 something

    prechamber oldtechnology diesel, 24valves, modded pump and 3.5bar of boost Click here to enlarge
    unopened engine, stock besides manifolds, turbo and injectionpump Click here to enlarge

    some Finnish people (the country east of Sweden) had that engine in a w123touring and drifted Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by swampmonkey Click here to enlarge
    Om606 diesel sixcylinder, from the w210 chassi, 1997-1999 something

    prechamber oldtechnology diesel, 24valves, modded pump and 3.5bar of boost Click here to enlarge
    unopened engine, stock besides manifolds, turbo and injectionpump Click here to enlarge

    some Finnish people (the country east of Sweden) had that engine in a w123touring and drifted Click here to enlarge
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJK3z4E6slc
    I did not know about this motor. Thank you.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    If you want to see more crazy MB-Builts you sure now the legendary Turbobandits from Sweden / Russia!! Click here to enlarge



    According to M275 Builts in older cars I think it will be VERY VERY Hard to get around the Complex ECU/TCU Management, Can-Bus etc.etc.

    Maybe it can be done, but for sure you need real experts who know what they are doing and also a lot of $$ to get this job done.

    But this would be great! Would be interesting to drive for sure...Click here to enlarge

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    yeah, Roman the turbobandit is a special guy Click here to enlarge

    i planed to skip the ECU completely, go with the Megasquirt, (supposed to have maps for v12s) i need a trigger for the ignition and the injectors, and nothing else, but when one ditches everything else, i hope i dont have to deal with any imobilisers or other stuff at al, i dont have any plan to get ABS or Anti-spin, or the engine to chit-chat with my taillights over a cup of tea. no catalysators needed, no environment problems at al, Megasquirt even have a sollution for that twin-spark part Click here to enlarge

    The car is from 1985, so i dont have any limits or problems other than getting the engine to run to my liking, get some paper that it has about 200hp, benched and with its own map for the "gouverment" to approve the build, and then another map for everything else.

    doing the build with a guy named Robert, he has built a few Megasquirts earlier and seem confident that it will work good, his "daily" a r107 with a 5.6liter from that era with 800hp.
    my part is solving the mechanical problems, enginemounts, building manifolds etc, he will get the basic ECU to work, and then map it together.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 65AMG Click here to enlarge
    If you want to see more crazy MB-Builts you sure now the legendary Turbobandits from Sweden / Russia!! Click here to enlarge

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNePnoSeghA

    According to M275 Builts in older cars I think it will be VERY VERY Hard to get around the Complex ECU/TCU Management, Can-Bus etc.etc.

    Maybe it can be done, but for sure you need real experts who know what they are doing and also a lot of $$ to get this job done.

    But this would be great! Would be interesting to drive for sure...Click here to enlarge
    Yeah she did not take that too well. Holy crap I'd throw her out of the car with all that screaming.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Yeah she did not take that too well. Holy crap I'd throw her out of the car with all that screaming.
    Yeah, or maybe use the screaming as a kind of Shift-Light... Click here to enlarge

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    he promises her that "i wont be driving fast, promise, the engine is broke, what do you mean recording with the camera, flashing light? thats because the battery is dead, stupid girl now nothing of technology"

    "no promise i wont drive fast, engine is broke, dont work, why would i trick you? silly girl"
    WRROOOOOOOM! M OHAAHAHA Click here to enlarge


    ---
    shiftlight? i thought one used the engines screaming for that Click here to enlarge

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    I like this crazy stuff from Scandinavia...Click here to enlarge

    Look here a little "off topic" : I think this one is from Finland.

    Some guy makes a nice wheelie in his old "worn out" BMW E30 and goes in the 8'xx 1/4 Mile. Nice runs...Click here to enlarge



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    Update:

    the guy i was getting the ECU+some mechanical work done bye havent done anything, so brought the car back home, and will start the project by myself.

    dont know what ECU to use, or if i get one from him, but leaning towards, VEMS or Megasquirt.

    is there anyone else who has mapped their m275 by themself, or swapped out the stock ECU that has any good input?

    the engine is in the car, with gearbox, want to start it up and get it running before i do to much manifold building.

    (it will be darn tight) as the plan is now, the "downpipe" of the right side will go back near the IC and then go behind the engine to go down with the leftside downpipe.

    the downpipe being to near the IC so i have to reweld the waterintercoolers, for a tad different angle for the air -inlet

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by swampmonkey Click here to enlarge
    is there anyone else who has mapped their m275 by themself, or swapped out the stock ECU that has any good input?
    I doubt it man it's tough to find people working on this motor.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I doubt it man it's tough to find people working on this motor.
    hmm, someone has to be the first,
    since people keep doing ECU stuff on the BMW v12s, this engine shouldnt be to much different,

    and the "only" difference between the m104 is double the amount of cylinders Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by swampmonkey Click here to enlarge
    hmm, someone has to be the first,
    since people keep doing ECU stuff on the BMW v12s, this engine shouldnt be to much different,

    and the "only" difference between the m104 is double the amount of cylinders Click here to enlarge
    Hey I'm rooting for you Click here to enlarge

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    okay, should be getting a ms3x in a couple of weeeks/days, hopefully.

    anyhow, anybody had their engine apart, and know what the fire order of the cylinders would be?
    the m120 seems to have 1 -12-5-8-3-10-6-7-2-11-4-9 but uncertain about the m275,
    i would guess the m137 would be a good start, 60degree v12 SOHC 3valves engine that to, so ought to be somewhat the same.

    thinking of "wasted spark" but need to figure out what cylinders goes up in pairs, and what types of coils to use, like ls2 truck coils or something and two for each cylinder would cost... quite a lot. but wonder what other options there is Click here to enlarge

    any suggestions on coils?
    Last edited by swampmonkey; 08-11-2015 at 09:30 AM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by swampmonkey Click here to enlarge
    any suggestions on coils?
    No suggestion. All I know is the coil packs are a problem.

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