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  1. #1
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    My "fast car" journey leading up to my ~1000 awhp GTR "build" gunning for 8s and "no" lag

    I decided I should post a build thread on here.

    As most do, I wanted the most power with the fewest number of compromises, preferably none. Of course, what each person is willing to accept in terms of compromises is unique and many times based on past car experiences, so here is my vehicular journey.

    Ironically, despite growing up with a love of cars instilled by my dad who had restored a couple Corvettes in his teens and 20s and going to lots of car shows as a kid, I didn't even get my own car until I was a sophomore in college back in 2001 when a close family friend gave me his 1990 Toyota Camry that he bought new and then put 213,000 miles on commuting. The next summer I worked almost 70 hours a week, and I bought my first "cool" car, a 1990 convertible Rx-7 with a 5 speed and (unbeknownst to me) poor compression so it started stalling out of me all the time (not good for a rookie stick driver). Despite that, I loved the Rx-7 and having something unique in the rotary engine. I got my first "fast" car my senior year of college, a beautiful FD Rx-7 that was already heavily modded with a standalone and a T66 that put down 440 rwhp on 100 octane and around 380 rwhp on 93 octane. The driveability was not that great in that the car was an absolute dog under 4k RPM. The tune never allowed the car to spool smoothly if I floored it from a low RPM, so I pretty much just "drove around it" by either driving it easy or only flooring it right around 4k RPM, after which, it was a blast and pretty darn fast. Though I was somewhat knowledgeable about turbocharged cars (more than average at least), I never had another turbocharged car after the FD until the GTR. I went to a C5 Z06 after the FD. Then had a couple project cars like a swapped LS1 FC Rx-7. Then sold all my toys and drove a boring car while I started my own law practice after law school. That paid off and I bought a used E60 M5 which was an amazing car but I was scared to own it outside of the warranty. I bought a clean E46 M3 and did some mods and ended up supercharging it making around 500 rwhp. It was a fun car, but the tune had some minor hot start issues that never got addressed, but even though they were minor, they drove me crazy.

    I had been intrigued with the R35 since it was announced. I followed its development in the aftermarket hearing the horror stories about the fragile transmissions. Once I saw that all the "bugs" were worked out and the cars were capable of a 10 second pass bone stock, I knew I was ready to unload the M3. The owner of the shop who did a lot of the work on the M3 always loved my car and knew I didn't cut corners (and knew how much I invested into it), so he bought the M3 from me, and I was going to get the R35. A buddy of mine was the sales manager at the local Nissan dealer when the first GTR arrived on his lot years ago. I went and sat in it and somewhat-jokingly told him that I'd be back to buy one someday. Well, at first I was set on getting a white R35, and I asked the same sales manager friend if he could get a white one for me. He told me I should see the GMG BE he had in his showroom. I didn't particularly want the BE, but I figured I'd go look, and I was sold from the minute I walked in the door.

    I didn't even test drive it. I got the car thinking I wouldn't mod it. I told my friends who rolled their eyes at me, but I was resolute! If ANYTHING, minor mods. Spacers for the wheels for looks and maybe some bolt-ons...but JUST BOLT-ONS! Within weeks of getting the car, I went to the 2012 beach party and got to see some fast cars. Looking back on that, it's insane to see how far the aftermarket has come in less than 2 years. I'm not sure anyone even ran a 9 second pass that humid day. Now some of those same people click off low 9s and complain, lol. But I digress, I got to ride in Rocco's GTR which was "just" an old Alpha 9 car on E85 on stock tranmission so limited to like 700 whp or so. I remember knowing it was fast, but the lag was noticeable though not bad. I met HPLogic Jack and Rocco pretty much talked me into doing pumps and injectors and doing E85. What finally "sold" me on modding the car was seeing a video of an FBO E85 car hanging with or beating a cammed C6 Z06 from a roll, not an easy feat. I went to the dealer for my 1,000 mile POS and within a few days, drove down early one morning to HPLogic where Anthony and Jack modded my car in a day, dyno'd it, and I drove it back in the pouring rain all the way home. At that point, I had injectors, pumps, GB 3" intakes, AMS DPs and full Akra exhaust. When I finally got to experience the difference in power, I was hooked on E85 for good. I ran a best of 10.3 at the strip with 18" M&H drag radials on the rear.

    During this time, the aftermarket continued to move into warp speed. A couple more 9 second stock turbo cars popped up. Audioenvy's 8 second stock frame turbo beast arrived. Omega went 7s, and lots of other cars dropped into the 8s. I started to succumb to the temptation even more that maybe I should consider modding further. I reached out to a couple vendors and got quotes of $30-45k to do a stock frame turbo upgrade, build the motor and upgrade the trans to varying degrees. The "2.5" equivalent transmission builds made me nervous. With my luck, I would break a gear. Furthermore, I started to get greedy and think that if I'm going to spend tens of thousands more, I wanted to make at least 900 awhp on a moderate to conservative dyno and have enough power to go 150 mph traps consistently. That brought me around to compromises...though these stock frame turbo upgrades spool would be nothing like the lag I had with my old T66 rotary FD back in the day, I was forever spoiled by the insta-spool of stock turbo E85. Was I really willing to make the compromise of a touch of spool and response to make 300 more awhp? I finally decided that I was willing to make that compromise and "decided" on a 30-based upgrade since that would give me the best chance at my 150 mph traps goal. When I finally talked myself into accepting the compromise in lag/response, I then began to think again about the "risk" of not doing gears 1-6 and decided I was not willing to accept that risk which increased the cost of the build significantly and made me question everything all over again.

    Enter, Jack's Transmissions. As I said above, I had gotten a couple quotes from a couple different vendors. When I saw that Jack's was doing the bottom end build and drag 800 combo thing, I reached out to him. He e-mails the way I like e-mails done. As I hope you can tell by this post, I try to organize my thoughts, and he replies to my organized thoughts and rarely misses anything. He told me his gears and billet baskets and such wouldn't be ready until January, so I had him quote me "everything" and decided to just wait until January (this was late fall). I had previously purchased a 958 Cayenne Turbo from Colorado Springs back in 2012 and had it transported to Florida enclosed very reasonably, so I contacted the same trucker directly, and got a great deal on shipping my car, so the distance didn't really matter all that much in the grand scheme of things.

    During all this decision making, I still knew I could manage a 9 second pass on stock turbos if I could get decent weather and make a few more tweaks. I switched over to Ecutek with Visconti for the RRTC and the FlexFuel capability. I swapped to the WGP carbon ceramics as I knew the rotational weight savings would be huge. I knew I was going to need an upgraded intercooler anyways, and I saw Buschur release his kit. In the past, I had seen his testing methodologies and decided to buy in. The results spoke for the themselves in barely rising temps over course of a pull. Finally, I got the Syvecs AWD controller to allow a very quick RWD burnout to clean off the M&H drag radials. That was just enough for a 9.999. Even though we had even better weather the week after that pass, I decided to step back, accept the 9 second "win" and not risk breaking anything so close to the build.

    Around the same time, I saw the release of the Borg Warner EFR 6758 stock frame setup heralded as capable of 30R power with better-than-28R lag. I was intrigued. I am fully aware there is generally no "free lunch" when it comes to this stuff, but the "gamma Ti" material of the turbine wheel made sense. More info on these is here and here. A big thanks to Adamantium whose build thread I have followed on the UK forum since learning about these turbos. He went with the smaller 6258 variant but his description of the way the car drove helped sell me on them.

    I also decided to reach out to Buschur and see if he wanted to port my heads. He gave me a good deal to get the work, and I got a full "race" port job on the heads that I hope will pay off. He recommended sticking with a conservative cam choice like the Tomei 264s, so I agreed.

    The car is now at Jack's and everything is coming together nicely. Full specs will be as follows:

    CP 10:1 pistons
    Manley Turbo Tuff rods
    Tomei 264/264 Procams
    Ferrera valvetrain
    Buschur-ported heads and intake manifold
    Stock frame Borg Warner EFR 6758 turbo upgrade
    ID2000s
    AMS fuel rail kit
    ASNU "Battleship" fuel system with dual "veyron" pumps
    Jack's 900 ft/lb clutch
    Jack's 1-6 gears, billet FWD output shaft, billet baskets
    AMS Catless DPs
    SBD Titanium 4" Exhaust
    GotBoost Intakes w/ green filters
    GotBoost SD conversion
    Buschur Racing intercooler and piping
    Tial Q BOVs
    WGP Carbon Ceramics
    DSS Rear Axles with Stubs
    Syvecs AWD Controller
    Ecutek Flex Fuel tune by John Visconti
    20x9.5" Volk TE37 fronts with 285/35-20 R888s
    20x11" Volk TE37 rears with 315/30-20 R888s (street)
    18x10.5" Varrstoen rears with 325/40-18 M&Hs (strip)

    The car should be complete sometime next week and I hope to have her back early May.
    Current: 2013 GTR (built motor and trans, stock frame EFR 6758 turbo upgrade, 915 rwhp, 9.18 @ 150 on E85) - 2013 ML63 (Tuned by Renntech 12.0 @ 116) - 2000 E46 (SBC & F1R) 2003 S600 (Dad's DD Tuned)
    Past: 2011 Cayenne Turbo - 2006 Cayenne Turbo (catless and tuned) 2002 Z06 (Heads/Cam/Nitrous)
    Past: 2002 BMW M3 (AA Gen 7) - 2006 BMW M5 - 93 FD RX-7 (T66) - 88 FC RX-7 (LS1) - 90 FC RX-7

  2. #2
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    Nice write up! Good luck with your goals!
    Click here to enlarge
    FBO's. Spec S2+. E85.

  3. #3
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    Sounds like a very well thought out build, well done. How about some pics of the various states it's been through? Click here to enlarge
    2010 E90 335i xDrive
    JB4 G5 ISO | BMS DCI | BMS OCC | Alpina Flash | LED Angel Eyes | Matte Black Kidney Grills | growing list....

  4. #4
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    Couple quick pics

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge
    Current: 2013 GTR (built motor and trans, stock frame EFR 6758 turbo upgrade, 915 rwhp, 9.18 @ 150 on E85) - 2013 ML63 (Tuned by Renntech 12.0 @ 116) - 2000 E46 (SBC & F1R) 2003 S600 (Dad's DD Tuned)
    Past: 2011 Cayenne Turbo - 2006 Cayenne Turbo (catless and tuned) 2002 Z06 (Heads/Cam/Nitrous)
    Past: 2002 BMW M3 (AA Gen 7) - 2006 BMW M5 - 93 FD RX-7 (T66) - 88 FC RX-7 (LS1) - 90 FC RX-7

  5. #5
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    From stock to 8's not including the cost of the car. What will you approx have invested parts/labor? Just curious..
    Click here to enlarge
    FBO's. Spec S2+. E85.

  6. #6
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    ^^^^^ this
    Honda CBR 1000RR, Superbike Supply, Arrow, HRC, BMC, Lee's Cycle, Galfer, EBC, Revzilla, AXO, Dainese, Scorpion Helmets

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  7. #7
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    It wasn't cheap, and as above, I didn't set out to run 8s so it cost more than it could have. I will say that if I do go 8s, I will have done so cheaper than most if not all the other GTRs who have done so. Obviously, I could have done so in a fox body mustang for a heck of a lot cheaper, but that was never the point.
    Current: 2013 GTR (built motor and trans, stock frame EFR 6758 turbo upgrade, 915 rwhp, 9.18 @ 150 on E85) - 2013 ML63 (Tuned by Renntech 12.0 @ 116) - 2000 E46 (SBC & F1R) 2003 S600 (Dad's DD Tuned)
    Past: 2011 Cayenne Turbo - 2006 Cayenne Turbo (catless and tuned) 2002 Z06 (Heads/Cam/Nitrous)
    Past: 2002 BMW M3 (AA Gen 7) - 2006 BMW M5 - 93 FD RX-7 (T66) - 88 FC RX-7 (LS1) - 90 FC RX-7

  8. #8
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    Where are you located?

    I don't think my M3 will be anywhere near this as it sits but I wouldn't mind doing a comparison and don't mind losing.

    Good thread! Would love some more pics.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    First off BADASS build, this car will be a beast! Moving on the turbos, I have to agree with you there is never any free lunch. Getting 30R power with less than 28R lag is basically defying the laws of physics. Here are some comparisons of similar sized GTX's and EFR's with all the fancy Gamma ti wheels etc. The results might surprise you. Spoiler alert, the GTX's spool faster.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  10. #10
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    Yeah, I saw that testing. Most of the other testing I have seen has shown otherwise, that the comparably sized EFR turbo will perform better in spool and response (particularly on the street) than its Garrett counterpart. It's not a "free" lunch per se since the standard IHI turbine wheel weighs in at 0.135kg. The significantly larger gamma ti EFR turbine wheel only weighs 0.150kg. For reference a Garrett turbine wheel of a similar size weighs 0.255kg making the EFR part over 40% lighter.

    On another setup less optimized than mine will be, (no 4" exhaust, no head work, mild cams v. moderate, pump not E85), 1 bar of boost was achieved on the dyno by 2700 RPM. That's equal to or better than the stock turbos. Apparently, the visceral feel of the spool on the street is even more dramatic.

    Obviously, it's all just bits of data and lots of speculation at this point, but I am very optimistic. I will be posting Vbox data, timeslips, dynos, etc. Nothing to hide here.
    Current: 2013 GTR (built motor and trans, stock frame EFR 6758 turbo upgrade, 915 rwhp, 9.18 @ 150 on E85) - 2013 ML63 (Tuned by Renntech 12.0 @ 116) - 2000 E46 (SBC & F1R) 2003 S600 (Dad's DD Tuned)
    Past: 2011 Cayenne Turbo - 2006 Cayenne Turbo (catless and tuned) 2002 Z06 (Heads/Cam/Nitrous)
    Past: 2002 BMW M3 (AA Gen 7) - 2006 BMW M5 - 93 FD RX-7 (T66) - 88 FC RX-7 (LS1) - 90 FC RX-7

  11. #11
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    Getting closer

    Click here to enlarge
    Current: 2013 GTR (built motor and trans, stock frame EFR 6758 turbo upgrade, 915 rwhp, 9.18 @ 150 on E85) - 2013 ML63 (Tuned by Renntech 12.0 @ 116) - 2000 E46 (SBC & F1R) 2003 S600 (Dad's DD Tuned)
    Past: 2011 Cayenne Turbo - 2006 Cayenne Turbo (catless and tuned) 2002 Z06 (Heads/Cam/Nitrous)
    Past: 2002 BMW M3 (AA Gen 7) - 2006 BMW M5 - 93 FD RX-7 (T66) - 88 FC RX-7 (LS1) - 90 FC RX-7

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    Looking good! Hope to see some videos soon!
    Click here to enlarge
    FBO's. Spec S2+. E85.

  13. #13
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    Car is done and waiting for transport home. We are going to wait to dyno at sea level here in Florida rather than do so in Colorado. Here's a pic of the engine bay (before the repainted engine cover is on) and the new larger carbon shift paddles.

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge
    Current: 2013 GTR (built motor and trans, stock frame EFR 6758 turbo upgrade, 915 rwhp, 9.18 @ 150 on E85) - 2013 ML63 (Tuned by Renntech 12.0 @ 116) - 2000 E46 (SBC & F1R) 2003 S600 (Dad's DD Tuned)
    Past: 2011 Cayenne Turbo - 2006 Cayenne Turbo (catless and tuned) 2002 Z06 (Heads/Cam/Nitrous)
    Past: 2002 BMW M3 (AA Gen 7) - 2006 BMW M5 - 93 FD RX-7 (T66) - 88 FC RX-7 (LS1) - 90 FC RX-7

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    If ANYTHING, minor mods. Spacers for the wheels for looks and maybe some bolt-ons...but JUST BOLT-ONS!
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
    Current - 16 Jeep Wrangler - Few Mods
    Looking for a n54 project e90/e82

  15. #15
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PianoProdigy Click here to enlarge
    Car is done and waiting for transport home. We are going to wait to dyno at sea level here in Florida rather than do so in Colorado. Here's a pic of the engine bay (before the repainted engine cover is on) and the new larger carbon shift paddles.

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im.../901PeDq-1.jpg

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im.../UyE4Qy4-1.jpg

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im.../60ADpeG-1.jpg
    Hell yeah.

    What's left?

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  16. #16
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Hell yeah.

    What's left?
    Nothing really. Since it had to stay another 2 weeks waiting for transporter, I am having Jack's' address a couple minor things, but otherwise, it will come home and we will tune and dyno.
    Current: 2013 GTR (built motor and trans, stock frame EFR 6758 turbo upgrade, 915 rwhp, 9.18 @ 150 on E85) - 2013 ML63 (Tuned by Renntech 12.0 @ 116) - 2000 E46 (SBC & F1R) 2003 S600 (Dad's DD Tuned)
    Past: 2011 Cayenne Turbo - 2006 Cayenne Turbo (catless and tuned) 2002 Z06 (Heads/Cam/Nitrous)
    Past: 2002 BMW M3 (AA Gen 7) - 2006 BMW M5 - 93 FD RX-7 (T66) - 88 FC RX-7 (LS1) - 90 FC RX-7

  17. #17
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    Car is back home. Running 0% WGDC right now and it feels faster than before running 100% WGDC on stock turbos. 6758s appear to respond and spool like stock as was advertised. Tuning and dyno on Monday. I'll be posting results. Hoping to hit 1000 at the wheels.

    Click here to enlarge
    Current: 2013 GTR (built motor and trans, stock frame EFR 6758 turbo upgrade, 915 rwhp, 9.18 @ 150 on E85) - 2013 ML63 (Tuned by Renntech 12.0 @ 116) - 2000 E46 (SBC & F1R) 2003 S600 (Dad's DD Tuned)
    Past: 2011 Cayenne Turbo - 2006 Cayenne Turbo (catless and tuned) 2002 Z06 (Heads/Cam/Nitrous)
    Past: 2002 BMW M3 (AA Gen 7) - 2006 BMW M5 - 93 FD RX-7 (T66) - 88 FC RX-7 (LS1) - 90 FC RX-7

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    I can't wait to see your results!!!

    I'm going to turn it into an article that's for sure.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I can't wait to see your results!!!

    I'm going to turn it into an article that's for sure.
    It's going to be a few more weeks. Had an issue to troubleshoot, but I will get you plenty of data and media for an article.
    Current: 2013 GTR (built motor and trans, stock frame EFR 6758 turbo upgrade, 915 rwhp, 9.18 @ 150 on E85) - 2013 ML63 (Tuned by Renntech 12.0 @ 116) - 2000 E46 (SBC & F1R) 2003 S600 (Dad's DD Tuned)
    Past: 2011 Cayenne Turbo - 2006 Cayenne Turbo (catless and tuned) 2002 Z06 (Heads/Cam/Nitrous)
    Past: 2002 BMW M3 (AA Gen 7) - 2006 BMW M5 - 93 FD RX-7 (T66) - 88 FC RX-7 (LS1) - 90 FC RX-7

  20. #20
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PianoProdigy Click here to enlarge
    It's going to be a few more weeks. Had an issue to troubleshoot, but I will get you plenty of data and media for an article.
    No rush here, it's appreciated.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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