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    Porsche to start production of 785+ new 991 GT3 3.8 liter direct injected flat-6 motors on April 22nd and will extend the warranty by a year

    It appears the Porsche 991 GT3 engine fire saga due to faulty rod bolts is finally coming to an end. Porsche will replace all 785 991 GT3 3.8 liter flat-6 engines produced up to this point and the new motors will begin production later this month. Porsche is doing their best to appease 991 GT3 and in addition to the new motors will also provide an additional 12 months of warranty for the drivetrain once the original warranty expires which is a nice gesture.

    Porsche will also document the installation of the new motor and provide a certificate to owners that the car has been updated. This should at least somewhat help the value hit the cars would otherwise take on the secondary market.

    This is still a black eye but Porsche is doing their best to heal it as quickly and professionally as possible.

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    Porsche notice:

    Dear Mr. [REDACTED]: I am writing as promised to inform you about the current status of our solution to the issue with the Porsche 911 GT3 model you have purchased. We are aware that you are currently faced with an unsatisfactory situation. As a Porsche customer, you rightfully expect excellence in product and service performance. This particularly applies to you as a GT3 customer, as a brand ambassador with a shared passion for Porsche. We are in the final phase of logistics planning and technical validation for the optimized piston rod screw connection and we will start production of the new engines the week of April 22nd. These engines will be distributed worldwide for installation in all 991-generation GT3 models built to date. As soon as the new engine for your Porsche 911 GT3 is available, we will make contact with you again to make specific arrangements. Please be assured that we will document the installation of the new engine into your vehicle and will provide you with a certificate to this effect. Furthermore, as a gesture of our appreciation for your loyalty to Porsche, we will apply an additional 12-month Porsche Approved warranty to your 991 GT3 which will commence upon the expiration of the normal Porsche New Vehicle Limited Warranty. Additionally, we wish to compensate you for your inability to drive your GT3 during this time. Our GT3 Concierge will be in touch with you shortly to discuss the specifics and will also be at your service for any other individual assistance you may need. I apologize once again for the inconvenience caused by this issue and thank you for your patience. Yours sincerely, Tim Quinn Vice President, AfterSales Porsche Cars North America, Inc. Please do not reply to this e-mail. If you have questions, please contact 1-800-PORSCHE. Please read our privacy policy. If you would rather not receive future e-mails from Porsche Cars North America, Inc., please contact 1-800-PORSCHE, or use the manage subscriptions link at bottom. 2014 Porsche Cars North America, Inc. Legal notice www.porscheusa.com.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Wow. This is one of the worst screw ups ever. Good reaction, but man, I'm shocked how long it took them to find this. Are they offering a full refund to those that want it? I would think that would be appropriate also - let people return the Porsche and buy something else if they want.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Wow. This is one of the worst screw ups ever. Good reaction, but man, I'm shocked how long it took them to find this. Are they offering a full refund to those that want it? I would think that would be appropriate also - let people return the Porsche and buy something else if they want.
    I don't think there is a full refund option.

    I'm not sure how I would feel about this whole situation.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    At least they're manning up to their mistake and the problem. Unlike that one time that guy ordered his own M3 the color and way he wanted it, and they made a mistake and could care less. Porsche>BMW all day.
    Burger Motorsports
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't think there is a full refund option.

    I'm not sure how I would feel about this whole situation.
    Perhaps like this?


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    At least they're manning up to their mistake and the problem. Unlike that one time that guy ordered his own M3 the color and way he wanted it, and they made a mistake and could care less. Porsche>BMW all day.
    i'll give you one even better. the engine design on the S65 and S85 engines is $#@!ed up as BMW recommends thick oil that we have pretty much no choice to use so far because of all the additives inside of it with tight clearances and leaded rod bearings, as well as $#@!ty vanos setup. in LCI S85s the vanos teeth are longer and stronger but BMW waited until the MY2010 engines to change the rod bearings to unleaded. many people have had their engines blow up with the dreaded "metal in my oil" and had to fork out their own dough to get a replacement engine. the reason we can't just clean the engine up is because these engines are too smart and know something was up, so it constantly stays on limp mode.

    who knows how many of those people forked over 30 grand to BMW for a new S(6/8)5. but did BMW even acknowledge it? any recalls? even a single bulletin to all BMW dealers to make service advisers call their M3/5/6 customers and just drop a simple "hey bring in your car at 60k miles so we can change your rod bearings"? nothing. the owners and independent shops had to rip the engines apart themselves to figure it out and deduce what could be done to prevent engine detonation. but nothing from BMW. only way they'll hook you up is if you have a warranty with them. and it's not even easy to get a warranty on these cars anymore.

    BMW should take some notes from Porsche. every time there is an issue Porsche steps up big time. case in point the IMS problem in 2005 carrera 997 models. 2006 onward issue was addressed, recalled and resolved.
    '08 535xi - fbo

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    At least they're manning up to their mistake and the problem. Unlike that one time that guy ordered his own M3 the color and way he wanted it, and they made a mistake and could care less. Porsche>BMW all day.
    Say what? Weird example and conclusion.

    BMW just replaced a failed S65 out of warranty on good will - there is an example of good service. I believe it is documented on m3peepeepost.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rawad1017 Click here to enlarge
    i'll give you one even better. the engine design on the S65 and S85 engines is $#@!ed up as BMW recommends thick oil that we have pretty much no choice to use so far because of all the additives inside of it with tight clearances and leaded rod bearings, as well as $#@!ty vanos setup. in LCI S85s the vanos teeth are longer and stronger but BMW waited until the MY2010 engines to change the rod bearings to unleaded. many people have had their engines blow up with the dreaded "metal in my oil" and had to fork out their own dough to get a replacement engine. the reason we can't just clean the engine up is because these engines are too smart and know something was up, so it constantly stays on limp mode.

    who knows how many of those people forked over 30 grand to BMW for a new S(6/8)5. but did BMW even acknowledge it? any recalls? even a single bulletin to all BMW dealers to make service advisers call their M3/5/6 customers and just drop a simple "hey bring in your car at 60k miles so we can change your rod bearings"? nothing. the owners and independent shops had to rip the engines apart themselves to figure it out and deduce what could be done to prevent engine detonation. but nothing from BMW. only way they'll hook you up is if you have a warranty with them. and it's not even easy to get a warranty on these cars anymore.

    BMW should take some notes from Porsche. every time there is an issue Porsche steps up big time. case in point the IMS problem in 2005 carrera 997 models. 2006 onward issue was addressed, recalled and resolved.
    I have no experience with the S85. Here is what I know about the S65.

    There is nothing wrong with the S65. You are listening to a small group of people that have started with their own conclusion and worked back from that. There is no evidence that 0w oil helps. There is no evidence that the bearing wear comes from tight clearances (Clevite suggests it may be detonation). There is no evidence that treated bearings help - because people just started doing this. VAC's bearings, as an example DECREASE clearance. WPC increases and is a solid solution (in theory) but has not been proven - at all. Most of the engines torn down have been in Cali ($#@!ty fuel = detonation) and supercharged (LOL @ most of these crap tunes which also likely detonate).

    It's amazing that I have 48k miles on my car and it hasn't exploded. I know another guy (klammer) that has tens of thousands of max attack track days - hasn't exploded yet either. How?

    The whole paranoia is perpetuated by:

    A diesel mechanic in Canada that works on industrial low-rpm engines.
    A NASCAR engine builder (not designer) that works on NASCAR race motors that never see high miles or anything but ultra-controlled conditions.
    A guy that really knows nothing about cars, but is curious.

    Consider the source, look at the failures stats, don't give in to the paranoia.

    You want BMW to issue a recall to change out the bearings on 20k+ M3s when a fraction of 1% (documented on m3peepeepost to the best of a users ability) have failed?

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    I will also point out that the same experts on the S65 claimed that there was no point to tight bearings. Amazing since there are many reasons to do this and not just for "a few more hp"...Clevite and Lang Racing have discussed some of the benefits at length. This information is disregarded by the bearing mafia since it is devastating to their argument and all-knowing attitude.

    I'm not an expert engine builder or designer; just a critical thinker. But the fact that BMRLVR and Kawasaki told everyone that there was no point to tight bearings is proof positive that they are focused on what they know and are not attempting to understand anything outside of that. Again - low rpm diesels; NASCAR pushrod engines. If you listen to those guys one would assume that a properly built engine never wears! LOL. Let's just look at this logically shall we. There premise is that BMW did this for basically no reason; there is no upside; and changing to wider clearances has no downside. Yup - M are a bunch of idiots. That seems logical.

    It's nonsense and it pisses me off, not because I own an S65 (just beat the $#@! out of it at the track today) but because it will influence people to enjoy their M3 less and drive it like sissies. I actually spent some time talking to another M3 driver that was so concerned about his bearings and oil and blah blah. That is a travesty as this is one of the greatest cars ever built IMHO and people should enjoy them, not be terrified they will explode.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    I have no experience with the S85. Here is what I know about the S65.

    There is nothing wrong with the S65. You are listening to a small group of people that have started with their own conclusion and worked back from that. There is no evidence that 0w oil helps. There is no evidence that the bearing wear comes from tight clearances (Clevite suggests it may be detonation). There is no evidence that treated bearings help - because people just started doing this. VAC's bearings, as an example DECREASE clearance. WPC increases and is a solid solution (in theory) but has not been proven - at all. Most of the engines torn down have been in Cali ($#@!ty fuel = detonation) and supercharged (LOL @ most of these crap tunes which also likely detonate).

    It's amazing that I have 48k miles on my car and it hasn't exploded. I know another guy (klammer) that has tens of thousands of max attack track days - hasn't exploded yet either. How?

    The whole paranoia is perpetuated by:

    A diesel mechanic in Canada that works on industrial low-rpm engines.
    A NASCAR engine builder (not designer) that works on NASCAR race motors that never see high miles or anything but ultra-controlled conditions.
    A guy that really knows nothing about cars, but is curious.

    Consider the source, look at the failures stats, don't give in to the paranoia.

    You want BMW to issue a recall to change out the bearings on 20k+ M3s when a fraction of 1% (documented on m3peepeepost to the best of a users ability) have failed?
    i agree. however think about this.

    most of the bearing damage is a result of oil starvation during cold starts. many first owners of these cars are people who lease them, beat the crap out of them and return them. many of these people are stupid and would turn on the car, and on cold start rev to ridiculously high RPMs and speed off. in order for detonation not to happen the car must be warmed up properly (sit for 5 mins at least). so what ends up happening? 2nd gen buyers get ahold of the car and when it gets to 50-70k miles their engines blow up. they might have warmed the car properly but the first owner probably didn't.

    also many owners (including me) live in areas where it gets cold. BMW gives us thick oil to use. the car revs over 8000 rpms. not a great mix.

    do you know how great it is for this engine to have the potential to last well over 200k miles? ferraris and lambos are $#@! after 50k. these engines are near the same categories as those cars.

    when your engine hits 65k miles check your bearings. i bet they will look like $#@!.
    '08 535xi - fbo

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    It's nonsense and it pisses me off, not because I own an S65 (just beat the $#@! out of it at the track today) but because it will influence people to enjoy their M3 less and drive it like sissies. I actually spent some time talking to another M3 driver that was so concerned about his bearings and oil and blah blah. That is a travesty as this is one of the greatest cars ever built IMHO and people should enjoy them, not be terrified they will explode.
    oh hell yeah these cars are meant to take a beating. everyone who works on these engines recommends we drive our cars like we stole it. that way the wear is even, i guess fluids get in the right places, idk lol. this is what i've acquired from research.

    thread officially derailed
    '08 535xi - fbo

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rawad1017 Click here to enlarge
    i agree. however think about this.

    most of the bearing damage is a result of oil starvation during cold starts.
    This absolutely has not been proven. As I mentioned Clevite said detonation was more likely do to the pattern and location of the wear.

    many first owners of these cars are people who lease them, beat the crap out of them and return them. many of these people are stupid and would turn on the car, and on cold start rev to ridiculously high RPMs and speed off. in order for detonation not to happen the car must be warmed up properly (sit for 5 mins at least). so what ends up happening? 2nd gen buyers get ahold of the car and when it gets to 50-70k miles their engines blow up. they might have warmed the car properly but the first owner probably didn't.
    Now this I agree with...also short $#@!ty trips repeatedly. Think "dentist driving 4 miles to work; 5 days a week". Engine will never get up to temp; oil will be diluted with fuel.

    also many owners (including me) live in areas where it gets cold. BMW gives us thick oil to use. the car revs over 8000 rpms. not a great mix.
    *Only* and issue at startup. But I agree, if you want to take extra precautions, you can run a lighter oil in the winter if you have no choice but to park it outside. If you can drive garage to garage, then it will have no impact.

    do you know how great it is for this engine to have the potential to last well over 200k miles? ferraris and lambos are $#@! after 50k. these engines are near the same categories as those cars.
    Ehhhh - I don't really agree. There are 430s with 100k plus that are going strong. Engines are ok, sure there are other things that break. Most people never take their modern Ferrari's over 50k miles and of those, how many are proactively looking at bearings? How many modern-Ferrari drivers know what a bearing is? ; )

    when your engine hits 65k miles check your bearings. i bet they will look like $#@!.
    I won't, not until 100k at the earliest. Define $#@!? Will they have wear - of course. Will they be on the verge of exploding the engine? I doubt that severely. I'm the only owner of the car, and save a couple of really cold starts and an emergency getaway, it has been treated pretty well. Again - klammer beats on his M3 with more track miles than probably anyone in the world. He is on his original bearings and over 100k miles now I believe. There is just no empirical evidence to support this. Most of the opened engines are isolated to an area with crap fuel and have been "tuned" or supercharged. The cylinder pressures supercharging are massive, and will increase wear everywhere, not just on the bearings. People have to expect this.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rawad1017 Click here to enlarge
    oh hell yeah these cars are meant to take a beating. everyone who works on these engines recommends we drive our cars like we stole it. that way the wear is even, i guess fluids get in the right places, idk lol. this is what i've acquired from research.

    thread officially derailed
    Your fault! ; )

    Important discussion though and I will take people up on it every time to ensure that the bearing-mafia stops scaring that crap out of people : )

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    I won't, not until 100k at the earliest. Define $#@!? Will they have wear - of course. Will they be on the verge of exploding the engine? I doubt that severely. I'm the only owner of the car, and save a couple of really cold starts and an emergency getaway, it has been treated pretty well. Again - klammer beats on his M3 with more track miles than probably anyone in the world. He is on his original bearings and over 100k miles now I believe. There is just no empirical evidence to support this. Most of the opened engines are isolated to an area with crap fuel and have been "tuned" or supercharged. The cylinder pressures supercharging are massive, and will increase wear everywhere, not just on the bearings. People have to expect this.
    don't get me wrong your bearings can last a very long time if the car has been treated properly. you being the first owner is the best thing ever cause you already know how to treat the car. http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-touring-discussion/335089-peak-inside-worlds-highest-mileage-all-original-s85-261-000-miles.html ethis guy lasted 216k on original bearings
    but there are people who have had these cars and not driven them properly. raikku from evolve as well as other people who have worked on these engines have deduced the cause of the heavy bearing wear from cold start. 10W-60 is some thick oil man. i bet if BMW gave us 0W-60 instead we wouldn't have these problems. i'm honestly going to listen to these guys.

    btw i've only read that one big rebuild thread on $#@!post lol i've gathered a lot of this stuff from m5board and everything i say is regarding the s85. but since the s65 and s85 are like the same thing i'd think the same thing applies.

    rod bearing job to me is preventative maintenance and when i'm at 60k i only have to fork out $2-3k to get them changed out. why take the risk?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Your fault! ; )

    Important discussion though and I will take people up on it every time to ensure that the bearing-mafia stops scaring that crap out of people : )
    i agree with you on that some people blow this way out of proportion.
    '08 535xi - fbo

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rawad1017 Click here to enlarge
    don't get me wrong your bearings can last a very long time if the car has been treated properly. you being the first owner is the best thing ever cause you already know how to treat the car. http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-touring-discussion/335089-peak-inside-worlds-highest-mileage-all-original-s85-261-000-miles.html ethis guy lasted 216k on original bearings
    but there are people who have had these cars and not driven them properly. raikku from evolve as well as other people who have worked on these engines have deduced the cause of the heavy bearing wear from cold start. 10W-60 is some thick oil man. i bet if BMW gave us 0W-60 instead we wouldn't have these problems. i'm honestly going to listen to these guys.
    I run 15w50 in my 308 which has similar clearances...as do at least half of the owners out there ; )

    Here's at least a couple things to consider - what oil film is left from 10w60? What kind of oil film will be left with 0w40? Oil pressure IS lower with 0w40 - as confirmed by the bearing-mafia themselves. What is the impact? Not sure...

    Totally agree on the abuse. Ilia @ iND made a solid comment to me. "Turn on your M3 and drive it flat out with no warm-up...you'll blow it fairly soon" - maybe 30k miles? Ilia is not just a salesguy either - he is a racer and has built his own motors. People forget that this is essentially a race engine in a street car.

    btw i've only read that one big rebuild thread on $#@!post lol i've gathered a lot of this stuff from m5board and everything i say is regarding the s85. but since the s65 and s85 are like the same thing i'd think the same thing applies.
    Yes and no. Sure there are some things that can be deduced. Here are some things that are different - vanos, oil system, software, and a lot of other things I am unaware of. Sure that experience is valuable...but almost all the same variables apply that make it very hard to draw scientific conclusions...not just theories that make sense in a vacuum.

    rod bearing job to me is preventative maintenance and when i'm at 60k i only have to fork out $2-3k to get them changed out. why take the risk?
    Well - up to you of course. I have the ability to swap them myself in the garage, but I'd rather see what happens honestly. If it blows, I'll report to the community, then drop another S65 in there. It's my favorite engine in the world only second to the 4.3 and 4.5L Ferrari V8s.

    i agree with you on that some people blow this way out of proportion.
    That's all I want people to consider. BMWLVR literally said "if kawasaki and I were this incompetent we would be out of a job". LOL - most arrogant and idiotic statement I have perhaps ever read. Neither one of them has EVER designed an engine - mechanic and engine builder respectively. Let alone the most advanced and highest production number V8 in the history of the planet. Again 20k+ M3s out there and a fraction of 1% have engine issues. Clowns!

    Also - one thing to add. I've modified my M3 with the idea of balance - GT car when I want and max-attack in comfort at the track also. I run RS29s on street and track, Michelin PSS on street and track, and 10w60 street and track because I run hot oil temps. My car spends a ton of time between 7-8300 RPM at the track and those high RPM are essential to good times. I run it right redline and it's right on it on downshifts at the end of the two straights to setup for some serious turns. There is no perfect brake pad, tire, or oil for all conditions and implying that there is, especially without serious data, is just silly to me. I'd rather change my bearings at 100k vs. spend 2-3 hours every track day to switch from "steet mode" to "track mode".
    Last edited by singletrack; 04-13-2014 at 12:31 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Well - up to you of course. I have the ability to swap them myself in the garage, but I'd rather see what happens honestly. If it blows, I'll report to the community, then drop another S65 in there.
    at the end of the day this is what it all depends on.
    '08 535xi - fbo

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    It is crazy how paranoid people have become about the bearings, I'm reading about people swapping them at 16-20k miles lol...wtf! I have 46k miles on my m, and will continue to look at a blackstone report now and then, change them if anything pops up. Since my car is now supercharged, I'm expecting them to wear quicker, we shall see. It reminds me of the idiots that bought a 328 so they didn't have to deal with hpfp issues on the 335...good callClick here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    ESS 6XX kit

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rawad1017 Click here to enlarge
    at the end of the day this is what it all depends on.
    Agreed - data, data, data!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    It is crazy how paranoid people have become about the bearings, I'm reading about people swapping them at 16-20k miles lol...wtf! I have 46k miles on my m, and will continue to look at a blackstone report now and then, change them if anything pops up. Since my car is now supercharged, I'm expecting them to wear quicker, we shall see. It reminds me of the idiots that bought a 328 so they didn't have to deal with hpfp issues on the 335...good callClick here to enlarge
    It makes me sad honestly - it really does. All the $#@! we all have to deal with in our lives. Spending this money on a car, we should all be able to enjoy it.

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    so yeah anyway good job Porsche LOL
    '08 535xi - fbo

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rawad1017 Click here to enlarge
    so yeah anyway good job Porsche LOL
    Hahahaha! Back to the GT3 - awesome car; can't wait to see more from the owners on youtube etc. I'm also anxious to hear about what the "compensation for the loss of use of the GT3" will entail. Sounds like they will likely try to negotiate with each owner. Here's one thing I know about a lot of guys that buy this level of car - they expect perfection. Porsche - crazy demands incoming!

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    What oil are people recommending for the bearings now? Thinner? Thicker?

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What oil are people recommending for the bearings now? Thinner? Thicker?
    some guys are experimenting with thinner and some of the mechanics who work on them are reccomending thinner racing oil redline 0w-50
    '08 535xi - fbo

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    WPC increases and is a solid solution (in theory) but has not been proven - at all. Most of the engines torn down have been in Cali ($#@!ty fuel = detonation) and supercharged (LOL @ most of these crap tunes which also likely detonate).

    It's amazing that I have 48k miles on my car and it hasn't exploded. I know another guy (klammer) that has tens of thousands of max attack track days - hasn't exploded yet either. How?
    I know ACM has posted photos of S65 + S85 rod bearings that look pretty beat, pretty sure there's a fair amount out of N/A cars that are showing excessive wear? Once again I'm not sure how these owners drive the car (regularly, get the engine up to temp, change oil at proper intervals, etc), but I worry for one of my neighbors with an E60 M5, and if he's even aware that he should at least Blackstone the oil to make sure everything is within spec.



    To some degree, it's a bit concerning with very popular car manufactures releasing products with unforeseen headaches -- BMW has had it's share with the E46 M3 Subframes, N54 with HPFP, Injector & Serpentine Belt Issues & the early release S63s having Oil Pump Problems, and most recently the 991 GT3 with the Rod Bearings. Realistically, Porsche has handled their issues much better.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
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    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    but I worry for one of my neighbors with an E60 M5, and if he's even aware that he should at least Blackstone the oil to make sure everything is within spec.
    SHOW HIM THIS THREAD. AND TELL HIM CHANGE HIS OIL EVERY 5K MILES. #bearingmafia





    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Realistically, Porsche has handled their issues much better.
    hell yes
    '08 535xi - fbo

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    BMW handles their issues by pretending they don't exist.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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