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  1. #1
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    Just how much does direct injection carbon buildup hurt? B7 RS4 gains 42 wheel horsepower after 034Motorsport carbon cleaning

    One of the downsides of direct injected motors is carbon buildup. Over time carbon builds up on the intake valves cluttering them up and having a detrimental effect on an engine's performance. Oil and fuel essentially gets on there and this creates a circular problem of more and more oil and fuel clinging to the deposits and the thickness of the deposits around the valves increases. Just how bad can this be? Just take look at how much material was removed from a B7 RS4.

    Click here to enlarge

    That is quite a bit of material, isn't it? There is no way anyone could expect an engine to function as it should with it being gunked up with that much carbon. This car had 69800 miles on it and did not have any aggressive modifications only a rear section exhaust and filter.

    As for the effect on performance, the baseline on a Mustang all wheel drive dyno before the cleaning showed 287 horsepower to the wheels and 240 pound-feet of torque to the wheels. After the cleaning these figures change to 329 horsepower and 266 pound-feet of torque. A night and day difference.

    There are measures that can be taken to minimize carbon buildup such as oil catch cans and methanol injection but this will be an issue no matter what and one owners of direct injected engines should monitor. A good cleaning can make the car feel like new especially if one gets the impression it has become sluggish over time.

    Valves before the cleaning:

    Click here to enlarge

    Valves after the cleaning:

    Click here to enlarge

    Dyno:

    Click here to enlarge

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    That's unbelievable.. Hard to imagine all of that coming off one motor.
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rdeterman Click here to enlarge
    That's unbelievable.. Hard to imagine all of that coming off one motor.
    There's no way all that carbon is from one motor. Just look at the carbon in the intake port picture, multiply that by 8. It's only a fraction of what is in the tray. There's no way....

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AlexQuattro Click here to enlarge
    There's no way all that carbon is from one motor. Just look at the carbon in the intake port picture, multiply that by 8. It's only a fraction of what is in the tray. There's no way....
    You're saying they exaggerated it?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You're saying they exaggerated it?
    Not at all. Common sense is telling me that what is in the tray is too much carbon for one motor. Do they claim it is from one motor? Is there a link with more pictures?

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    I believe it. I've spent some time on the big carbon buildup threads for RS4s. Crazy stuff. These are amazing engines but the carbon buildup is almost beyond belief. If I had one I'd have meth and a catch can and I'd drive the piss out of it every possible chance in order to minimize it...this must be an expensive process.

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    hmm i need to start working on audis. lol
    Click here to enlarge
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    VTX3's Click here to enlarge
    Got one more tow with AAA lets make it count Click here to enlarge

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    If all that carbon was put inside the intake ports, the size of the ports would be considerably reduced and would hardly let any air through. Maybe the carbon is accumulating somewhere else too? That is a $#@!load of carbon compared to what is on the intake port picture.

    Perhaps I should have said it this way: there is no way all that carbon is coming from the intake ports of one motor. I'd like to know where the carbon is also building up. Anyways, time for this kid to go to bed.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AlexQuattro Click here to enlarge
    Not at all. Common sense is telling me that what is in the tray is too much carbon for one motor. Do they claim it is from one motor? Is there a link with more pictures?
    The implication is this is from one motor.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The implication is this from one motor.
    can an I post some pics of carbon build up on a Rs4 but they have my company logo, I have cleaned over 30 of them.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    can an I post some pics of carbon build up on a Rs4 but they have my company logo, I have cleaned over 30 of them.
    You've more than earned the right to do so.

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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Here are some pictures of RS4' at various mileage.

    Click here to enlarge

    This will give you a idea of quantity of Carbon, I would say a heaped table spoon per port.
    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    and here is a really high mileage car. The port divider has a match stick on to give you a idea. I am surprised this car even idled.
    Click here to enlarge

    We are seeing slightly less in power gains than 034 showed but the gains are major never the less. It also looks like our cleans are better in quality Click here to enlarge

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    Is the amount of carbon in the tray from one motor?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Is the amount of carbon in the tray from one motor?
    I cannot tell how big the tray is but I would say 99% that the carbon is not from the motor of which the valves are pictured. In my opinion and I could be wrong there isnt enough carbon on the valves pictured to allow scooping of the carbon. Also when its so little carbon the port dividers which gather a lot of carbon have a very thin surface.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    I cannot tell how big the tray is but I would say 99% that the carbon is not from the motor of which the valves are pictured. In my opinion and I could be wrong there isnt enough carbon on the valves pictured to allow scooping of the carbon. Also when its so little carbon the port dividers which gather a lot of carbon have a very thin surface.
    Thank you.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    Here are some pictures of RS4' at various mileage.

    This will give you a idea of quantity of Carbon, I would say a heaped table spoon per port.

    and here is a really high mileage car. The port divider has a match stick on to give you a idea. I am surprised this car even idled.

    We are seeing slightly less in power gains than 034 showed but the gains are major never the less. It also looks like our cleans are better in quality Click here to enlarge
    Awesome post! Excuse my language but holy $#@!ing $#@! that is disgusting. And I agree you're cleans are better as they leave no residue at all.

  17. #17
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    Here are some pictures of RS4' at various mileage.

    Click here to enlarge

    This will give you a idea of quantity of Carbon, I would say a heaped table spoon per port.
    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    and here is a really high mileage car. The port divider has a match stick on to give you a idea. I am surprised this car even idled.
    Click here to enlarge

    We are seeing slightly less in power gains than 034 showed but the gains are major never the less. It also looks like our cleans are better in quality Click here to enlarge
    WOW. That is scary. Good Job on the cleaning mate.
    Click here to enlarge



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  18. #18
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    I really need to get on this before the single or something. @alpinedevil335 This looks like a nightmare.
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  19. #19
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    The N54 is an engine that runs very very dirty too. My last N54 had to get cleaned at 50k cus it couldn't even do a pull at 13psi without coughing like a bad smoker leading to SES lights all the time. My 2nd N54 is up for a clean up, the car is now sitting at 61k miles, I can't even imagine how bad the valves look already, but this maintenance is not cheap, which sucks even more.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leo985i Click here to enlarge
    The N54 is an engine that runs very very dirty too. My last N54 had to get cleaned at 50k cus it couldn't even do a pull at 13psi without coughing like a bad smoker leading to SES lights all the time. My 2nd N54 is up for a clean up, the car is now sitting at 61k miles, I can't even imagine how bad the valves look already, but this maintenance is not cheap, which sucks even more.
    Labour is cheap in South Africa, we do N54/55's for $250 inclusive of gaskets.

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    How many hours of labor on the N54/55? How about the Audi motors?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leo985i Click here to enlarge
    The N54 is an engine that runs very very dirty too. My last N54 had to get cleaned at 50k cus it couldn't even do a pull at 13psi without coughing like a bad smoker leading to SES lights all the time. My 2nd N54 is up for a clean up, the car is now sitting at 61k miles, I can't even imagine how bad the valves look already, but this maintenance is not cheap, which sucks even more.
    Do you have a catch can?

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    I've done about 100 N54 walnut blasts.

    We've done a dyno pull- left the car on the dyno, walnut blasted it and did another pull immediately afterwards.
    no change in power, just a curve shift. that was it.

    I've seen some REALLY nasty ones too…. super nasty.
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    I may need to eat my words. I contacted some clients and asked for before and after dyno runs on the RS4 and the one had phenomenal results. Both cars are in the region of 90,000km with no prior clean.

    This is a stock car on a 4wd dyno power at the wheels 5600ft altitude.

    Click here to enlarge
    This car is running decated exhaust system with software. Same altitude.

    Click here to enlarge

    In regard to the N54 and turbo charged cars its a different kettle of fish. I will try dig up some graphs from the past. My findings with a stock car is the spool up is much quicker and boost target is met far sooner but its no task for the turbos to reach DME stock boost request albiet the car might get it a bit sooner. Timing is not affected.
    On high boost cars there is a big difference low down where boost request is usually at max and in some cases have seen as much as a 50nm gain in the lower rpm range i.e. below 3000rpm. High up once the target is met which is usually earlier its remains and the drop of is far slower at the high rpm. I have also noticed the car can hold more timing and a car that had previous drop outs sometimes the car can hold the power. I have a feeling this is due to the air getting poluted as it passes the carbon on the valve lowering in affect either the oxygen content of the air or created a "octane" affect.
    The best cars to do are the JB cars on autotune. The cars immediately request 1.5 psi and a large gains are found across the board.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    I really need to get on this before the single or something. @alpinedevil335 This looks like a nightmare.
    i know steelcurtain had a "how to" on mk5/mk6 on carbon cleaning the TSI engine. i assume it's nearly identical to the n54, sans 2 cylinders.

    Lately 90% of my driving has been 1-5 miles, glad I have meth, but I still can't imagine what my valves will look like in another 20k.

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