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  1. #1
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    PTF Dyno Take 2: 534WHP 532WTQ - Race Gas + Meth

    Went back to the dyno this past Saturday. It was a lot hotter out than last time when the car did 523whp on pump+meth. With the same conditions as on the pump/meth runs it could've maybe done a touch better, maybe 540 even, maybe not. It shows just how close meth/pump numbers can be to a more expensive race gas+meth alternative when you're already maxed on the turbo side of things. However, with race gas some additional timing managed to be had without knock through the top end helping power not drop off as quickly in the 6-7k rpm range.

    These are the one-off set of stock frame upgraded turbos from Vargas around which so much heated and imho unnecessary debate happened last week. These will never see production. These are not Stage 2 Batch 2 turbos customers will ever see. These have a one off housing that was used to just put these together in the name of "science" to see the effects of a lot more machining work on the turbine housing in terms of hp while preserving the exhaust manifold in place.

    I personally take it as another fun day at the dyno, great numbers out of the backup motor I've put in that I picked up for a bargain and didn't get screwed on Click here to enlarge That is exactly what the previous post was also about from my end of it and I hope this one won't turn into what we had in the previous one again.

    Log attached to prevent any bloodshed LOL I think this is some kind of a stock frames turbo stock motor record, with a tune done in the most appropriate of ways possible (i.e. not testing hardware limits with bottom end boost or torque), even though its a hybrid of VTT/ASR hardware. The rpm/mph chart below the power/torque graphs is to show the RPM pickup cutting out Click here to enlarge dyno shop will need to sort that one out hopefully soon

    GREEN line is pump/meth
    RED/BLUE lines are race gas/meth

    Both tunes run the same boost and wg duty cycles. Only thing remaining is to try maybe using an E85 blend with meth, possibly.

    Cheers

    Click here to enlarge
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 08-19-2013 at 11:53 AM.
    Click here to enlarge

  2. #2
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    Cool

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    nice can't wait for e85 + meth dyno.

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    I guess the question is, if these things perform so well, why are they not the ones being offered to the general population as stage 2s?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    I guess the question is, if these things perform so well, why are they not the ones being offered to the general population as stage 2s?
    ^ i would like to know this also.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    I guess the question is, if these things perform so well, why are they not the ones being offered to the general population as stage 2s?
    Pretty sure the batch 2's will be very similar, these turbos were made awhile ago and Tony built them with what parts were available at the time, Tony has already gone through the differences in these turbos in another thread and stated that by looking at the design of these turbos compared to the Bath 2's, we should see similar or same numbers on batch 2's. Of course every car is different, so I honestly expect some people to see same or even better numbers and some will not see these numbers at all. Cars are different. Kinda like how so many different numbers are out there on FBO+meth cars. different tunes, different conditions during testing, so many variables.

    EDIT: Awesome numbers Dzenno! Congrats on record. Just for kicks, I believe you were the one who had the record stock frame turbo record with non-stock motor right? the ported heads? could we see a comparison, just curious to see how much there is to gain by going with ported heads as I am personally thinking about doing some motor work when I get my turbos. Just looking for your opinion, I know those were RB's on the car with the ported head car.
    2009 335i coupe back to stock...for now

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    honestly if you're selling these for 2799 or whatever id take a good hard look at them given the targets. reliability of the units is a concern but that is an unknown.

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    Damn impressive. Any chance you will be hitting the track anytime soon?
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    Was the tune purposely set to be less aggressive on the low end? Just curious as most dynos have at least 400 ft lbs by 3K.
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, VTT Inlets, UR Intake, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, DSS Axles, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

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    I think TZU actually snapped some pictures of these very turbos as they were being installed at Ivo's shop on an engine block that was being worked on a stand.

    Dzenno's car was sitting right next to it and had not been touched yet......so D is being very honest and transparent about this being a spare stock engine.

    I took a quick look at them and saw the official VTT logo on the turbos, and although they were stock frame housings, Ivo pointed out some significant machining that went into the turbo inlets.

    I could see (once he pointed out) how good the machining was that somehow spliced in a larger inlet opening into the stock turbo frame.

    Would be interesting if TZU posted up the pics he took.....but that might be stepping on Dzenno's and Tony's toes.

    So this was just as Dzenno states - a one off prototype to see what works in real life on a stock spare engine (not D's ported one).

    I would imagine this was done for the sake of direct comparability to RB's as no one running RB's has a ported head.

    Looks like this combo is making numbers comparable to RB, so I would bet that the success of this concept design will be morphed into the coming round of stage 2's.....albeit without the custom inlet machining as that would probably drive the price point higher.

    But that's just me speculating.

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    Nice results! Any plans on hitting the strip with these units?
    11.76 @ 124 (123.9) full weight e92 335i, street tires, no meth.

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    I'm in for some drag strip times Click here to enlarge haven't seen any low 11s this year lol.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  13. #13
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    @Sticky, any way I can multi-quote respond? Somehow that seems to not be working anymore for me at least
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    I actually did hit the track yesterday but it was rather embarrassing lol it was super hot and humid out and the only option was to participate in a drag racing competition event where they used a .400 pro tree. So, no amber lights, stage, then, GO! Super hard to concentrate, managed 4 runs and I did a kick ass 12.4 best with 60' ranging from 2.2 to 2.5 lmao i didn't have my 2step or nls hooked up and used a brand new set of Hoosiers that I didn't manage to burn out properly like I usually do...been 2 years since my last outing so I was majorly rusty...sliding all over the place at launch, fully lifting off to straighten the car then hit 2nd, etc...had I been in a 6AT though, very different story hehe 6ATs are so lame! Click here to enlarge

    I did make one pretty nice discovery though that I'm happy to share with other 6MT drag racing brothers out there, regardless of their tune choice Click here to enlarge in another thread
    Click here to enlarge

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    What were your trap speeds?
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
    What were your trap speeds?
    Best was a 126 so nothing spectacular, record breaking or worth mentioning much these days. However, in colder weather, such as November when I managed to pull off the 6MT N54 stock turbo record (11.4@126) and with all my wotbox goodies including my hand/feet coordination back in the game I think it should be able to beat that time. That one was with a 1.8 60'
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    Best was a 126 so nothing spectacular, record breaking or worth mentioning much these days
    Solid, nonetheless.
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    People were telling me that my driver's side rear tire wasn't burning out properly for whatever reason (@farbmw). This definitely contributed to poor launches. No idea why or how so I'll need to look into that too. I also forgot to set my rear suspension to full hard before going to the track Click here to enlarge There's always a next time though and I do need some practice to get the feet moving
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    People were telling me that my driver's side rear tire wasn't burning out properly for whatever reason (@farbmw). This definitely contributed to poor launches. No idea why or how so I'll need to look into that too. I also forgot to set my rear suspension to full hard before going to the track Click here to enlarge There's always a next time though and I do need some practice to get the feet moving
    Full hard? You wouldn't want full hard, softer suspension will allow for more weight transfer to the rear on the drag strip resulting in harder/faster launches. Nonetheless, in non-ideal conditions 126 trap is still movin. (6MT world record run in his sig is 126.6mph @JStang so not slow) No, not WR, but in hot weather that's damn good.

    Don't you guys do LSD builds? Not saying you do them yourself, but I'd think someone over there at PTF could help you out! lol. Hopefully nothing is going bad and you don't need to rebuild, but it's a OS Giken and if you've had it for awhile, that may be the case.

    sorry mentioned trap speed and didn't realize other posts were made regarding it....my bad bro!
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
    Full hard? You wouldn't want full hard, softer suspension will allow for more weight transfer to the rear on the drag strip resulting in harder/faster launches. Nonetheless, in non-ideal conditions 126 trap is still movin. (6MT world record run in his sig is 126.6mph @JStang so not slow) No, not WR, but in hot weather that's damn good.

    Don't you guys do LSD builds? Not saying you do them yourself, but I'd think someone over there at PTF could help you out! lol. Hopefully nothing is going bad and you don't need to rebuild, but it's a OS Giken and if you've had it for awhile, that may be the case.

    sorry mentioned trap speed and didn't realize other posts were made regarding it....my bad bro!
    Actually in terms of rear suspension you want the rear to be full hard on IRS (independent rear suspension) Click here to enlarge trust me, 100s of passes here with "this" particular car tinkering and dialing it in. Also, if you do some research on IRS setups and drag racing you'll see that many others out there also suggest to go full soft in the front and full hard in the rear to promote weight transfer so the front lifts. Squatting in the back does help but on an IRS it'll start to do funny things.

    In terms of the LSD, this particular one that I'm running is a Wavetrac I picked up from someone locally that traded their car in when I had a pinion go my 2.56 Quaife. That was before we got into offering LSD builds. We'll open it up and take a look but it could've also been just not enough heat on the tires as I was rushing it. Waiting all day to do one pass every 1-1.5 hours sucks for concentration and feeling things out.
    Click here to enlarge

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    The dyno results look good and in line with RBs. Hopefully the production design is similar to these as I think its a winning combination.

    On the logs can you post a chart with boost, timing, afr, and duty cycle all plotted by RPM? On the track times don't worry, I managed to run 12s @ 118mph on the VBOX the other day with our 450whp MT E92. It happens. NLS will help a bit but it's all in the launch. I know you don't want to hear this but limiting boost in 1st gear will help. Click here to enlarge
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    Just plot it big deal Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    Just plot it big deal Click here to enlarge
    Honestly its sucks to plot csv files in excel, I ended up copying data from a BT-log into one of my old JB4 logs so I could view it in the JB Interface Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
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  24. #24
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    Honestly its sucks to plot csv files in excel, I ended up copying data from a BT-log into one of my old JB4 logs so I could view it in the JB Interface Click here to enlarge
    Where there's will there's a way Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
    Where there's will there's a way Click here to enlarge
    never plotted (or really looked at) a n54 log. Hope I pulled the right stuff. I used the labels of Timing Cyl 1, Boost Pres. Rel. and WGDC Bank 1 by RPM. Didn't see anyway to pull out AFR. If this is wrong let me know, and I'll take it down.
    Click here to enlarge

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