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  1. #1
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    E85 Tune needed. Vendors please chime in.

    As the title states. We are looking to convert my car onto pure E85 here. Right now we are running 9psi through the ESS kit, and are looking to pump her to about 12ish, but before we do so, we are upgrading the IC setup (Trunk mount reservoir w/ higher flow pump and larger, more efficient heat exchanger) larger injectors, higher flowing fuel pump and larger send and return fuel lines. Our issue that myself and Andrew @ AR Design have ran into is tuning on E85. I do not want to run meth, due to the fact of how inconsistent it is, and pump gas isn't an option, so we are turning to full E85. Our barrier is tuning however. We are looking for someone who is willing to come on board and tackle the tuning (drivability and WOT) for a full E85 setup. If anyone is interested in jumping on this, please let us know.
    -08 E92 Brushed Steel DCT 613hp-
    -ESS/AR 700 - KW V3's - AR Design - Volk TE37 - Vorsteiner - Challenge-
    -2012 Brushed Red Aluminum GTR-
    - Jacks 3.8 w/ Jacks heads - Jacks Drag 800 w/ billet gears - AAM GT-900R - Swift - ADV.1 - Ecutek via Visconti -
    - 1060hp 852tq 32psi - 9.34 @150mph 7688ft DA - 185.5mph 1/2 mile 9240ft DA -
    http://www.jackstransmissions.com/
    http://store.vtune.us/
    http://www.revvolution.com/

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    @BrenM3 @undercover (Garth) @evolve @Andrew@activeautowerke --- Besides the obvious need to significantly increase your fueling capability, I'd be concerned about the consistency in quality of E85. While 93 octane is fairly consistent, E85 can vary anywhere between 70-85% (creating a large potential for knock if the tune is too aggressive & the engine does not appropriately adjust)


    Good luck, would def love to see this work out & what E85 can do on a stock motor kit
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    @BrenM3 @undercover (Garth) @evolve @Andrew@activeautowerke --- Besides the obvious need to significantly increase your fueling capability, I'd be concerned about the consistency in quality of E85. While 93 octane is fairly consistent, E85 can vary anywhere between 70-85% (creating a large potential for knock if the tune is too aggressive & the engine does not appropriately adjust)


    Good luck, would def love to see this work out & what E85 can do on a stock motor kit
    I spoke with Andrew @ AA a few hours ago, and he agreed that finding a tuner is going to be the issue here. This is our major roadblock right now. Would be nice to crack 700 SAE on a stock S65, which is the long term goal here.
    -08 E92 Brushed Steel DCT 613hp-
    -ESS/AR 700 - KW V3's - AR Design - Volk TE37 - Vorsteiner - Challenge-
    -2012 Brushed Red Aluminum GTR-
    - Jacks 3.8 w/ Jacks heads - Jacks Drag 800 w/ billet gears - AAM GT-900R - Swift - ADV.1 - Ecutek via Visconti -
    - 1060hp 852tq 32psi - 9.34 @150mph 7688ft DA - 185.5mph 1/2 mile 9240ft DA -
    http://www.jackstransmissions.com/
    http://store.vtune.us/
    http://www.revvolution.com/

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    Mixing would be the easiest solution. Running 100% e85 is going to be pain if you have to change that fuel pump.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    Mixing would be the easiest solution. Running 100% e85 is going to be pain if you have to change that fuel pump.


    How much of a mix would we be able to get away with on a factory pump?
    -08 E92 Brushed Steel DCT 613hp-
    -ESS/AR 700 - KW V3's - AR Design - Volk TE37 - Vorsteiner - Challenge-
    -2012 Brushed Red Aluminum GTR-
    - Jacks 3.8 w/ Jacks heads - Jacks Drag 800 w/ billet gears - AAM GT-900R - Swift - ADV.1 - Ecutek via Visconti -
    - 1060hp 852tq 32psi - 9.34 @150mph 7688ft DA - 185.5mph 1/2 mile 9240ft DA -
    http://www.jackstransmissions.com/
    http://store.vtune.us/
    http://www.revvolution.com/

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    I've ran an E25 mix w/o issue's using the factory settings, but i'm relatively stock. I would imagine in your case, you are probably maxing out the factory fuel pump already on pump gas when the WHP you're making. Have you considered an inline booster pump?
    Loe P.
    B8.5 Audi S5 3.0"T" - GIAC stage II ECU / GIAC DSG TCU / AWE-tuning Pulley / AFe filter / 034 TBB / mod airbox / X-pipe
    - 09' E90 M3 7-DCT Interlagos Blue / Novillo Silver - gone Click here to enlarge
    [K&N filter|MS pullies|test pipes|Evolve Stg II tune/Servotronic/GTS-DCT Tune|Euro MDM]


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    You want to talk to @BrenM3 regarding this.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Based on bore/stroke/displacement/number of cylinders and goals. You will need to run twin ethanol compatible pumps in tank or run a stock pump with a external auxilary pump with a pick up tube in the tank, id1000 or fic 1100 injectors, 1:1 regulator. You will probably find that driving these injectors with the factory DME will be your biggest struggle. Although not impossible. Driveability may suffer, may not.

    I would love to put our EMS on one of these cars. But the initial expense of designing a OEM quality fuel system and making the first harness would be quite pricey.
    Click here to enlarge
    I probably run as much boost as you do fuel pressure

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    Gintani has fuel system upgrades available for those interested.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    fuel system

    I have searched for the Gintani one and could not find it. Can you link info Sticky?

    We have a car that is in need and I don't really have the time to tackle it right now.
    Click here to enlarge
    I probably run as much boost as you do fuel pressure

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    Gintani & ESS both required aftermarket fueling system for their Low Compression builds (which means Active Autowerke probably also has something); there really isn't much online posted about them other than they required upgraded fuel returns & fuel lines
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by undercover Click here to enlarge
    I have searched for the Gintani one and could not find it. Can you link info Sticky?

    We have a car that is in need and I don't really have the time to tackle it right now.
    The info isn't posted publicly but they are the only ones that have an upgraded fuel system that can handle serious E85 fuel requirements (beyond stock internals). Mine is 1000+ capable for E85.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Im looking into all this as well !!!

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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    just from an E85 drinker myself on big boost- dont skimp on fueling.
    you will ultimately waste your time money and patience if you do otherwise.
    I have a set of 6 ID1000's for sale with about 3 or whatever hours on them from a dyno session- it would cure one of your issues for fuel (obviously you need 2 more Click here to enlarge) $600 shipped.

    secondly, I tried running dual Bosch 040 pumps inside the tank.
    first set died, second set died- i gave up. WASTE OF TIME. literally its the amount of room to move around in the tank with your hands is the problem. pumps/brackets/spacers/hoses/power/ground/level sensor/etc. Its 10lbs of crap in a 5lb sack.
    long story short- huge HUGE waste of time and $$$$$$$$$$

    do it right, and learn from me. I went thru a LOT of heartache and money getting my fuel system right.
    Weldon. period.

    I mounted mine in the wheel well of the trunk.
    In your case, its gonna have to be in the trunk exposed.

    ************************************************** ***DO NOT SKIMP ON YOUR FIRE EXTINGUISHERS AND FIRE SAFTEY EQUIPMENT. YOU ARE PLAYING WITH A FIRE HOSE FULL OF LAVA IF IT CATCHES FIRE********************************************** ****************
    Think about the fuel load it can push- 180 gallons per hour out of a 1" diameter hose at 60PSI. This is more than a garden hose and a HUGE problem if you have a fire.

    I have 2 extinguishers. one is a 10lb *real* halon extinguisher in the trunk that i would rather use due to the mess avoided, and the other is an A/B/C extinguisher that is inside the cabin.


    -12 inlet, -10 outlet to the fuel rails. -8 return from the regulator.
    100 micron inlet pre filter
    http://www.weldonracing.com/product/..._Assembly.html

    2025 fuel pump
    http://www.weldonracing.com/product/...Outlet%29.html

    10 micron post filter
    http://www.weldonracing.com/product/..._Assembly.html

    fuel pressure regulator

    http://www.weldonracing.com/product/...Regulator.html


    Fuel pump controller- run the "full on" wire off of a hobbs switch that turns on at 1-2 psi or so.

    http://www.weldonracing.com/product/...ontroller.html


    -12 or -10 sippy straw cut at a slash angle thru the top of the tank via a bulkhead thru the cap, with a fuel safe surge tank where the fuel pump used to be. (you will want to cuss a storm over fitting a square peg thru a round hole- but it will get in there with some encouragement)
    i have 3 new surge tank check valves for 125 shipped as well if you want to make your own......
    *but* this is a nice piece, and what I ultimately went with.

    http://www.fuelsafe.com/store/collec...ks/st100e.html


    i have *NO* and i mean *NO* issues with fuel collection or starvation/slosh. my car runs 9 seconds on paper, and pulls MASSIVE G forces. it also drinks E85 like its a job. DRINKS it..... I also took my syphon jet pump set up and ran it into the surge tank to fill it.

    (oh yea lets get to that)


    you need to go get 2 E36 syphon jet pump assemblies. go get em used. i picked up the extra one for like 30 bucks from the junk yard.

    I tried making a monster jet pump and just wasted a day at the machine shop- dont waste your time lol


    take the two jet pump assemblies and cut the ends off that would clip onto the cap.
    take a -4 "Y" to -8 connection
    warm up the plastic hose and thread the -4 into the jet pump feed.
    run your return from the regulator via bulkhead thru the cap into this "Y".....
    position the jet pumps as such they sit correctly inside the drivers side of the tank.

    this will allow simplistic efficiency of a tried and true jetup moving fuel from one side to the other. nothing to wear out. nothing to wire in. nothing to go wrong.
    this will allow two spots on the drivers side for maximum scavenging of the fuel.
    this will allow the massive amounts of fuel the pump/regulator is going to return to the tank and not "choke" it.


    I would almost say that with a -8 and going for BIG BIG power, i would run 3 jet pump assemblies for return.

    then i combined them all inside the tank, and ran them over to the passenger side, where i cut a hole and slipped them into the surge tank. I have made sure with a remote camera inserted in the tank that the drivers side is bone dry, and the surge tank is completely full/spilling over where the sippy straw is submerged.


    I run my fuel pump controller damn near at the "off" position via hidden rheostat in the trunk (maybe 15%?) and have a dead pressure @ 55psi with the vacuum hose disconnected on ID2000 injectors.

    under idle, with vacuum applied to the regulator it is around 35psi.
    under 1-2 psi of boost it rolls up to the 55psi mark, and past that boost level it turns the pump on 100% and it spikes to about 75 psi. the regulator also adds 1:1 boost ratio as well.


    figure out your mechanical fuel curve characteristics and then tune after. (i.e. get a base PSI, figure out the fuel pump controller settings, figure out when to turn on the boost switch) and you should have a very predictable and very reliable fuel system on big E85 boost (im running almost 30PSI)


    questions? lemme know- effing E85 is a love/hate relationship.
    Last edited by alex@ABRhouston; 08-22-2013 at 09:41 PM.
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  15. #15
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    oh- and i forgot one thing.

    lubricity of the fuel.
    E85 is very dry (obviously)
    IMO you need to give it some lubrication for everything.
    I use lucas E85 fuel stabilant- its green.
    I like it specifically, because it tints the fuel. I know its been treated, and I know its E85 in my race jugs.
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    That was a great post! Bravo.

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